What happened to increased communication?

[Kerbart]

8 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Man, I hate being right.  Guy just got back from multiple vacations, breaks, and other things that kept him out of the office.  And yet he's out again, pushing the KERB at least until Monday.  Well, if I'm gonna be Scarecrow-stradamus...I'll say no KERB Monday either.  I mean, there's always some excuse.

I hate to break this to you but predicting this right doesn't make you exactly gifted ya'know. More like Capt'n Obvious

[Biggen]

Been a member here since 2017 and I finally had to add a member to my ignore list for the first time.  Congrats @KSRe-dev on that accomplishment!

Yup, you called it @Scarecrow71.  Ridiculous how poor the communication has gotten.  How big is the team that is actually working on KSP2 exactly?  Seems like it's only a couple of people.

Edited March 9 by Biggen

[KSRe-dev]

users doing the work for me, even better

i think i understand their communication strategy now, thanks everyone

[Vanamonde]

Please stick to discussing the game rather than each other, and a greater effort to stick to the subject of the thread itself would be appreciated. Some comments removed. 

[Stephensan]

I just see general issues over and over

 

They are treating the Beta/Early Access as the real game, so behind the curtain, is for an "element of surprise".. There is simply zero ways for us users to help find bugs in updates that are not out yet. With only two CM's one on leave and the other is poor dakota, there is simply not enough CM's to keep the community satisfied.

For example, we hear about the holy grail of the slack channels, and yet dakota cannot show nor talk about anything that is really in there.. I mean is it really hard to do that, give us no information unless it's really needed and show us untextured models, or UI WIP, or something of the sorts?

I really don't know who is the big wig on that but it's getting kinda silly hearing about crafts they have built, cool stuff the team has been working on and everything in between that they have had to make multiple Slack(tm) channels just to keep it in check. saying that some of the team even adds music and other things to it and what not and then just not show any of it??

Just to get like a 1st anniversary of the game a single photo/leak of colonies, and to see, read or hear that the team wishes that we could see it spin around or if it was in motion cause it looks so cool, like the first year?

What does that mean, the textures only got worked on and its movement is not functional yet?

I'm questioning if it is hard to post a photo and then during the same time, create a video of the vehicle in motion in case the parts show physical movement, and if you want to get extra spicy put a kerbal near the part/craft.

Example:

Teaser 1

Spoiler

Teaser 2 

Spoiler

 

Teaser 3, 4

Spoiler

 

Also making a funny joke that some of the videos recorded are like 1080p30fps/60fps and like 2500kbps. 

 

I just made 3 or 4 leaks out of a single craft and guess what, that will be 4 weeks' worth of leaks instead of a single photo and groaning of "where leak", you know how long it took for even editing placing craft down and video editing well if i wasn't doing other things all this would have taken an 30 minutes at most, and 30% of it was trying to make a poor first leak photo instead of the crisp 4k. but man.

[Meecrob]

On 3/7/2024 at 3:15 PM, Scarecrow71 said:

You missed that one CM is out on paternity, while the other just got back from yet another vacation to go to a wedding.  And that doesn't excuse the fact that the CM's haven't been communicative on all platforms - especially the forums - when they are here.  Discord, IG, Facebook get stuff.  Us?  Nada.

As I said in another thread, it feels like when we bring up the topic that we want more communications, it seems they think they owe us "one communication" and we are all square. They don't seem to get that it is a continuous effort.

Edited March 9 by Meecrob

[MechBFP]

I’m just checking out at this point. Probably come back when colonies comes out, then check out for another 8 months or whatever it takes for something interesting to happen. 

[Dakota]

Hey all,

As mentioned in the K.E.R.B. yesterday, the past two weeks have been very focused on sprint planning. That's unfortunately taken up the majority of the team's time. 

I'll agree that there's been a bit of a lull here between the start of February and now. And I know y'all are begging for any details about colonies. The moment I have details to share, you'll hear em!

Mike returns from his paternity leave here in a few weeks and I think that'll really help address the things mentioned in this thread.

I've passed along your concerns to the leadership team here at Intercept. I'll follow-up if I have any other things to share about this.

Appreciate ya,

Dakota

[GGG-GoodGuyGreg]

First of all, congrats Mike!

 

Second, while I get it ain't an easy job you have @Dakota, it feels like communication with the dev team is unnecessarily complex and quite opaque for an EA.

While I get and appreciate coming back to us, anything really, even if it's not a dev diary or a small clip of upcoming stuff, I for one would rather know just "we're busy" rather than know 2 weeks were spent on a sprint planning. That just doesn't give compliments to the team productivity IMO.

  

On 3/6/2024 at 6:19 AM, RileyHef said:

That brings us to now. The team has been able to take some time off over the last month and is deep in work towards a hefty 0.3 update. Nate recently sat down with a YouTuber for a 40-ish minute interview to update us on current progress towards that milestone, too.

In case anyone else like me is left wondering what interview? here it is 

 

 

[moeggz]

I’ve just accepted the fact that the devs want to eat their cake and have it to. “It’s EA so be patient and understanding of the bugs.” And also “We’re going to act like the EA launch was a full product launch and upcoming ‘updates’ will be treated like upcoming DLC and we won’t give any specifics on them until they launch.”  Launch an EA game to hide from criticism then treat your dev cycle and communications like your working on DLC for a finished game.
 

They ostensibly are asking for feedback and say that EA was for feedback not funding but then do not listen to the feedback that is received. Worse, the future of the game is kept under such secrecy we can’t even give good feedback because we don’t know how anything will be implemented. Their treatment of com net occlusion and maneuver nodes makes me worried that their vision for a finished KSP2 may differ significantly from the view of a majority of the player base. 
 

They’ve proven me wrong before, so I’ll get back to waiting. But as Nate said he would be worried when criticism stoped because it’s more worrying to have no feedback then negative feedback as it’s a sign of waning interest in the game. I’m seeing not just reduced player counts again but the forums and KSP2 side of the subreddit are turning into ghost towns.

[Oak7603]

On 3/11/2024 at 11:20 PM, MechBFP said:

I’m just checking out at this point. Probably come back when colonies comes out, then check out for another 8 months or whatever it takes for something interesting to happen. 

And this is what I said would happen over a month ago in my thread: 

I still think that player numbers will continue to yo yo with each DLC update but less and less each time. I havent played since before I posted and there has been no movement, or sign of movement since. The only communication was a 40 minute interview, not released to the forum where the paying EA players are, but in a way that was just an advertising opportunity.  I had enjoyed KSP2 up to when I stopped playing but I have lost a lot of interest. I will probably play when the next bit is released but I also wouldnt be surprised if I didnt. At the rate this game is being developed we won't even have a full release by 2026. Imagine the amount of competition released between now and then...

The one thing I have learned from this is I will never pay full price for an EA ever again.

 

[Scarecrow71]

48 minutes ago, Oak7603 said:

The only communication was a 40 minute interview, not released to the forum where the paying EA players are, but in a way that was just an advertising opportunity.

This is the most bothersome point of the whole communication breakdown.  We get promised more, but actually get less.  And then, when the project manager does a 40+ minute interview on a topic that the community has been begging for information about, but doesn't tell us he did it and we have to find out through other means?  That's literally a slap in the face to the paying portion of the community.

[whatsEJstandfor]

9 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

And then, when the project manager does a 40+ minute interview on a topic that the community has been begging for information about, but doesn't tell us he did it and we have to find out through other means?  That's literally a slap in the face to the paying portion of the community.

I'm quite sure that the reason Nate didn't publicize it was because it wasn't his video. Like, clearly it was recorded weeks before it was published. Was Nate supposed to say "I did an interview with a rando; be on the lookout for it at some indeterminate point in the future!"? What if that rando had decided to never actually publish the interview. Now Nate's on the hook for something he had no control over. As for publicizing it after it the video was published, that, again, doesn't seem like it should be Nate's job; it's the video creator's. That we didn't get wind of it on the forums until someone else happened to stumble upon it should lead you to be critical of the dude who did the interview, not of Nate.

Edited March 13 by whatsEJstandfor

[Oak7603]

That's not the point, the point is that the information contained in it could have been given to the KSP2 community, to those that paid for a full price EA, on the OFFICIAL FORUM, where they have asked for feedback. Instead, it was given to a rando, as you put it, on a release schedule at the choice ofthe rando. Once it was released, of course, the KSP team could have, and should have, said, look at our interview everyone, here is some new information. They didn't.

Nate clearly felt that it was beneficial to do it this way, that's his choice, but players clearly disagree.

[SomeRandomGuy]

8 hours ago, moeggz said:

They ostensibly are asking for feedback and say that EA was for feedback not funding but then do not listen to the feedback that is received. Worse, the future of the game is kept under such secrecy we can’t even give good feedback because we don’t know how anything will be implemented. Their treatment of com net occlusion and maneuver nodes makes me worried that their vision for a finished KSP2 may differ significantly from the view of a majority of the player base. 

If you want to influence development, you have to get on the discord, so you can get stuff like this in.

https://imgur.com/a/NYw2qSd

[Fizzlebop Smith]

3 hours ago, SomeRandomGuy said:

If you want to influence development, you have to get on the discord, so you can get stuff like this in.

https://imgur.com/a/NYw2qSd

 

This is probably true. There is always a shifting expectation/ standard of how things are generally done. 

I am not attacking your stance, merely supporting my own feelz.

The problems is (IMO) many of us feel This is supposed to be the **official forum**.

 

Forums aee the rements of old BBS systems where the community came together before.

They are where the community shares things with one another traditionally, depate ideas.

A paradigm shift should predicate an equal effort on both fronts until a large portion of the community is no longer using the forums.

I am old. It is up to them to understand their user base a realize many of us are not the most savvy with discord.

Where the forum was on the bones of something old and alloweded a familiar transition...

Discord is not this.

It's clunky, poorly designed to filter large bodies of constantly updating threads

Until it improves and the rest of us old bogeys kick over, please bring us info to the forums..

 

[Oak7603]

3 hours ago, SomeRandomGuy said:

If you want to influence development, you have to get on the discord, so you can get stuff like this in.

https://imgur.com/a/NYw2qSd

I use Discord but this is the forum. If you don't want people to use a platform then don't offer it as a platform. If you have so many platforms that you want people to use but can't manage them equally, then get better/more staff.

The communication is poor. The updates and hotfixes are lacking and infrequent. The development is slow. The game is still unplayable for some and not engaging for most. Things need to improve.

[Biggen]

8 hours ago, SomeRandomGuy said:

If you want to influence development, you have to get on the discord, so you can get stuff like this in.

https://imgur.com/a/NYw2qSd

The discord link is broken.  Says "unable to accept invite".  I posted in that thread back in January it wasn't working and all I got was crickets from the devs.

Edited March 14 by Biggen

[Meecrob]

23 hours ago, moeggz said:

I’ve just accepted the fact that the devs want to eat their cake and have it to. “It’s EA so be patient and understanding of the bugs.” And also “We’re going to act like the EA launch was a full product launch and upcoming ‘updates’ will be treated like upcoming DLC and we won’t give any specifics on them until they launch.”  Launch an EA game to hide from criticism then treat your dev cycle and communications like your working on DLC for a finished game.
 

They ostensibly are asking for feedback and say that EA was for feedback not funding but then do not listen to the feedback that is received. Worse, the future of the game is kept under such secrecy we can’t even give good feedback because we don’t know how anything will be implemented. Their treatment of com net occlusion and maneuver nodes makes me worried that their vision for a finished KSP2 may differ significantly from the view of a majority of the player base. 
 

They’ve proven me wrong before, so I’ll get back to waiting. But as Nate said he would be worried when criticism stoped because it’s more worrying to have no feedback then negative feedback as it’s a sign of waning interest in the game. I’m seeing not just reduced player counts again but the forums and KSP2 side of the subreddit are turning into ghost towns.

The reason they are pulling this EA stuff is this team is not confident they can pull off a game on their own. They want it to be community crowd sourced, so if the game turns out to be no good, they can say "Hey, you guys told us what you liked, we just put it all together"

They don't realize that behind every great game is a vision. You don't even need to focus group if you have a good idea. That stuff is for people who have no ideas, lol.

Edited March 14 by Meecrob

[TickleMyMary]

Beyond a joke really... I've never known a company to spend 2 whole weeks on 'sprint planning', it's 4 hour meeting  once or twice month at most. Is there anybody competent at the helm?

I have again ducked out of the game due to science being less than anticipated, the behind the scenes 'efforts' just extend my need to continue doing so. I'm happy that *some* people are enjoying the game but this fiasco is far beyond what I want or expect from a game... Especially a game whos predecessor kept me hooked for the best part of 10 years. I'm not sure who's letting me down more right now, this continued mess or the similar one over at CS:2... Both seem tone deaf to what the fanbase wants, both charged full price for what is a bare bones experience and both utterly unable to interact with their communities in any honest way.

Devs with sketchy track records being the face of the game, community managers doing anything but their job title... Not to mention that the whole studio seems to have more breaks than a kit-kat.

One heck of a first year for the game... It can only get better because it doesn't get any lower than rock bottom.

[Scarecrow71]

16 hours ago, SomeRandomGuy said:

If you want to influence development, you have to get on the discord, so you can get stuff like this in.

https://imgur.com/a/NYw2qSd

See, that's not what the documentation related to this EA says.  It makes no reference that the only place to interact with the devs is on Discord, and the forums are literally touted as the OFFICIAL place for all things KSP.

Does being on the Discord help?  Yes.  But it isn't the only place, and the company shouldn't ignore the official forums that are still very active.

[RayneCloud]

I think I am going to have to just say it, the current communication with the community is incredibly disappointing. 

[Kerbart]

On 3/13/2024 at 2:23 PM, moeggz said:

Worse, the future of the game is kept under such secrecy we can’t even give good feedback because we don’t know how anything will be implemented. Their treatment of com net occlusion and maneuver nodes makes me worried that their vision for a finished KSP2 may differ significantly from the view of a majority of the player base. 

I see this at work all the time. "We will reveal feature X once it's finished." After reveal, feature X shows some fatal flaws. "That's important to know, unfortunately we can't change it because feature X has now gone in production, you'll just have to deal with it."

[Fizzlebop Smith]

21 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

I see this at work all the time. "We will reveal feature X once it's finished." After reveal, feature X shows some fatal flaws. "That's important to know, unfortunately we can't change it because feature X has now gone in production, you'll just have to deal with it."

This has been my largest fear all along. When they abandoned procedural missions for favor of railroading your tech choices with their new mission dynamic.

The old mission style could have offered enough repeatability for many of us to be concurrently playing while we await more content.

This may not be the root of others concern, but seemed to me that they abandoned a core game mechanic that wasn't broken.

I felt the vision at that point was drastically different than what I was hoping for.

 

Thank gawd for mods

[never_do]

7 hours ago, TickleMyMary said:

I've never known a company to spend 2 whole weeks on 'sprint planning', it's 4 hour meeting  once or twice month at most. Is there anybody competent at the helm?

That was exactly what I was thinking when I read that. I mean most people do 2-4 week sprints. Why do they need 2 weeks for sprint planning?  I really don't understand how that works.