What happened to increased communication?

[steveman0]

54 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Every patch has introduced new bugs.  And while they keep saying they are knocking out bugs, the worst ones that have been around since launch day haven't gone anywhere.  In fact, missing orbital lines returned after the last 2 patches dropped.

You seemed to have missed the point that solving serious bugs properly requires a lot of work. It's not surprising to me, having worked with test-driven development, that identifying the issue, developing the tests for fixing the issue, and developing tests to ensure the issue remains fixed can take time.

Even the orbital lines bug, as I understand it is actually several bugs and not so much as entirely fixed but rather partially in the cases that were identified as contributing.

1 hour ago, Scarecrow71 said:

How nice of him to share it here too.  Oh, wait - he didn't.  Thanks to the organization for continuing to ignore the forums unless it's to delete threads/posts they don't want to see.

This was the kind of off-the-cuff statement that just happened to come up as a one-line in conversation. Nothing to go marching on all the media platforms to broadcast. He did however express a positive response to writing up a dev blog post on their testing process, so we might get the full story that you're wanting.

1 hour ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Again, we have bugs that have been present since launch day.  The core gameplay loop is not entirely fixed, the game is still unplayable for some (and for others it's playable but buggy), and we've seen new content once (no, I'm not counting grid-fins) in the last 14 months.  They hired 2 of the best from the KSP1 modding community, and they can't even give us information on colonies.  They are certainly, and at a minimum, doing a poor job at the technical level

I understand why someone without a developer background would think this way. I understand the specific approach they are taking and recognize that it will make for much more consistent results going forward and that we've seen evidence of this recently. I also understand the effort it takes for this approach and the massive commitment of time required to propagate the benefits throughout the codebase - it won't happen overnight. If you want some optimism, read up on test-driven development and its value to long-running projects.

[Meecrob]

4 hours ago, Dakota said:

we're working to address your frustrations in a very direct way right now.

Yeah, like how you have completely ignored me for like a month now is it?

You tell me you are a straight-shooter, then go radio silent. I honestly don't care you had to hold the fort down. Thats just poor planning on your boss's part.

Edited April 11 by Meecrob

[Dakota]

26 minutes ago, Dakota said:

Just to clear somethings up:.... 2) The IG Community team does not take any direct moderation actions and only very rarely weighs in to moderation decisions.....

I know I'm immediately going back on my word here, but hopefully for good reason in y'all's eyes:

Making the decision to take the direct action to roll everything in that thread back, unhiding all of the comments, and locking the post to avoid those discussion points spinning more out of control.

 

[Scarecrow71]

11 minutes ago, steveman0 said:

I understand why someone without a developer background would think this way.

  Ah, but I DO have a developer background.  I'm the point person for automating file loads through SSIS/Alteryx into SQL Server/Snowflake for a pretty darned large team in a pretty darned large organization.  I'm fluent in several programming languages, understand the waterfall/agile methodologies, and am quite capable at scripting (in terms of the job I do, not necessarily overall for any type of coding project).  So I speak from the heart when I say that I feel that this project, KSP2, is not being handled the best way from a technical standpoint.  Although I'm sure the internal team uses Kanban or Rally or JIRA or whatever other board software to track projects, bugs, etc., I'm not sure why things are staying on it longer than one or two sprints.  Something is amiss, and regardless of background, anyone can see that.

1 hour ago, MechBFP said:

And I do recall telling you this before, so not sure why you keep bringing this up when the cause of your issue here is  the direct result of your own choice in refusing to run on appropriate settings for your hardware.

And I recall telling you I adjusted my graphics settings in KSP2 to lower a bunch of stuff to try and get better performance.  In fact, a list of some (if not all) of the applicable graphics settings from KSP2:

• V-Sync:  Off
• Resolution:  2560x1440
• Anti-Aliasing:  Off
• Anisotropic Filtering:  Off
• PC Quality Preset:  Low
• Environment Prop:  On
• Environment Prop Density:  Low
• Environment Prop Draw Distance:  Medium
• Ground Shading Quality:  High
• Texture Quality:  Medium
• Water Quality:  Low
• Shadow Details:  Low
• Shadow Quality:  Low
• Cloud Quality:  Low

See anything there that I haven't already been advised to tune?  I've got pretty much everything at low or off, with a couple of exceptions.  And before you ask, no, I do not have any graphic mods installed.  I don't use them in KSP1, and I don't use them in KSP2.  So please stop accusing me that I'm not listening when I clearly have been.  I am not seeing performance improvements.  I am also not the only one; I've spoken with people on Reddit, Discord, Facebook, and here on the forums that have the same issue.  If you see something there that I haven't tuned or haven't been told to tune, please spit it out and I'll give it a go.

[PDCWolf]

37 minutes ago, Dakota said:

3) The moderator(s) did not delete any of my comments in the thread, as some have stated they did.

Fixed my post someplace else on my end too.

12 minutes ago, Dakota said:

I know I'm immediately going back on my word here, but hopefully for good reason in y'all's eyes:

Making the decision to take the direct action to roll everything in that thread back, unhiding all of the comments, and locking the post to avoid those discussion points spinning more out of control.

 

That's a much better end for the thread in my opinion.

[Icegrx]

14 minutes ago, Dakota said:

Making the decision to take the direct action to roll everything in that thread back, unhiding all of the comments, and locking the post to avoid those discussion points spinning more out of control.

 

This was a solid move. Thank you. 

[MechBFP]

9 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

  Ah, but I DO have a developer background.  I'm the point person for automating file loads through SSIS/Alteryx into SQL Server/Snowflake for a pretty darned large team in a pretty darned large organization.  I'm fluent in several programming languages, understand the waterfall/agile methodologies, and am quite capable at scripting (in terms of the job I do, not necessarily overall for any type of coding project).  So I speak from the heart when I say that I feel that this project, KSP2, is not being handled the best way from a technical standpoint.  Although I'm sure the internal team uses Kanban or Rally or JIRA or whatever other board software to track projects, bugs, etc., I'm not sure why things are staying on it longer than one or two sprints.  Something is amiss, and regardless of background, anyone can see that.

And I recall telling you I adjusted my graphics settings in KSP2 to lower a bunch of stuff to try and get better performance.  In fact, a list of some (if not all) of the applicable graphics settings from KSP2:

• V-Sync:  Off
• Resolution:  2560x1440
• Anti-Aliasing:  Off
• Anisotropic Filtering:  Off
• PC Quality Preset:  Low
• Environment Prop:  On
• Environment Prop Density:  Low
• Environment Prop Draw Distance:  Medium
• Ground Shading Quality:  High
• Texture Quality:  Medium
• Water Quality:  Low
• Shadow Details:  Low
• Shadow Quality:  Low
• Cloud Quality:  Low

See anything there that I haven't already been advised to tune?  I've got pretty much everything at low or off, with a couple of exceptions.  And before you ask, no, I do not have any graphic mods installed.  I don't use them in KSP1, and I don't use them in KSP2.  So please stop accusing me that I'm not listening when I clearly have been.  I am not seeing performance improvements.  I am also not the only one; I've spoken with people on Reddit, Discord, Facebook, and here on the forums that have the same issue.  If you see something there that I haven't tuned or haven't been told to tune, please spit it out and I'll give it a go.

Try turning VSYNC on in the game options. I get large boost in FPS for some strange reason that makes no sense to me.  However in my case I have a GSYNC compatible monitor and am using GSYNC, so not sure if that is related or not. If you are running a normal 60HZ monitor and you can’t maintain an FPS above 60 however then VSYNC will just chop it down to 30 anyway so that won’t help. 
 

EDIT: Also worth a shot is force VSYNC off in your graphics control panel but still turn it on in the game options. Even though it shouldn’t do anything I think there is a bug related to it being turned off in game. 

Edited April 11 by MechBFP

[moeggz]

4 minutes ago, Icegrx said:

This was a solid move. Thank you. 

Straight up a faith restoring move. I may be vocal and critical but I love this franchise and Dakota’ skill in CM has been a large part of me staying around. 

Will edit/update/ delete my Reddit post as appropriate when I get home. It’s being weird in mobile and not letting me edit the post in my phone.

[Dakota]

5 minutes ago, moeggz said:

Will edit/update/ delete my Reddit post as appropriate when I get home. It’s being weird in mobile and not letting me edit the post in my phone.

I'm adding a comment to the reddit thread and asking the moderators to pin it so it gets some amount of visibility. Appreciate ya working to keep people updated

[atomontage]

@Dakota, I would not recommend locking the dev blog thread. Yes it is definitely harder to moderate when ppl are disappointed, but locking it further just pours more gas into the already burning field. It looks like you shut their mouth. Thats what I think.

Perhaps it would be wise to simply let things be as they are. Let ppl speak.

Edited April 11 by atomontage

[Pthigrivi]

Man I've been away a while but things seemed pretty good after science released. Folks getting antsy again? I'm psyched for colonies and I think it'll breathe a lot more life into gameplay. Personally Im happy to wait.

Edited April 11 by Pthigrivi

[Nerdy_Mike]

Thank you everyone for all the feedback and comments.

Also thank you @Dakotafor getting these all fixed up so quick. 

[Biggen]

I somehow missed that entire eclipse thread.

People are antsy because there still doesn't seem to be much happening on the dev side.  We get an April fools post and then a post about the silly eclipse?!  Basically two fluff posts.

Where the heck is the actual GAME content?

Edited April 11 by Biggen

[Pthigrivi]

5 minutes ago, Biggen said:

People are antsy because there still doesn't seem to be much happening on the dev side.  We get an April fools post and then a post about the silly eclipse?! 

Sir people can have their opinions but that eclipse was awesome. 

*Note this post is in a joking tone

[steveman0]

1 hour ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Ah, but I DO have a developer background.  I'm the point person for automating file loads through SSIS/Alteryx into SQL Server/Snowflake for a pretty darned large team in a pretty darned large organization.  I'm fluent in several programming languages,

It's surprising then that you can't grasp the situation. Maybe spoiled by being in only large well-funded organizations? In a small understaffed and/or underfunded environment you can't always tackle everything in a few weeks. Something has to give. Sometimes that means a bug sits on the list for weeks or months until you can spare resources for it. This is especially true when there is a particular focus on some new feature rather than fixes. Without knowing the details of the current development plans and focus (again the reason for this thread) the rate of development can't be reasonably estimated yet the quality that we've actually seen turned out lately has been positive.

[TickleMyMary]

1 hour ago, Dakota said:

Making the decision to take the direct action to roll everything in that thread back, unhiding all of the comments, and locking the post to avoid those discussion points spinning more out of control.

Certainly the best outcome... Well done for making the right call.

[Scarecrow71]

34 minutes ago, steveman0 said:

It's surprising then that you can't grasp the situation. Maybe spoiled by being in only large well-funded organizations? In a small understaffed and/or underfunded environment you can't always tackle everything in a few weeks. Something has to give. Sometimes that means a bug sits on the list for weeks or months until you can spare resources for it. This is especially true when there is a particular focus on some new feature rather than fixes. Without knowing the details of the current development plans and focus (again the reason for this thread) the rate of development can't be reasonably estimated yet the quality that we've actually seen turned out lately has been positive.

I'm curious as to what you think is a small, underfunded organization.  Because the team developing KSP2 is 50+ people strong and is backed by one of the largest game companies in the world.  By comparison, the totality of the department I work in is ~50 people and is backed by one of the largest health insurers in the world.  Explain to me how these are any different from one another?

The plain truth is that something internal is going on, and none of us are privy to it.  It doesn't matter what that something is.  What matters is that something is interfering with the team being able to do their jobs effectively.  From a technical standpoint alone that shouldn't happen.  Unless they are actively being told to stand down, the developers - not the artists, not the marketing deparment, not the CM's - should be working 45+ hour weeks to fix bugs until they are resolved.  Period.

[MachCoyote]

On 3/13/2024 at 9:54 PM, SomeRandomGuy said:

If you want to influence development, you have to get on the discord, so you can get stuff like this in.

https://imgur.com/a/NYw2qSd

Yet every time you suggest something on the Discord, they brush it off and tell you to go post it here where it gets ignored.

[Meecrob]

3 hours ago, Dakota said:

I know I'm immediately going back on my word here, but hopefully for good reason in y'all's eyes:

Making the decision to take the direct action to roll everything in that thread back, unhiding all of the comments, and locking the post to avoid those discussion points spinning more out of control.

 

Thank you! I knew you were a gentleman, you just had some stuff to deal with

 

2 hours ago, TickleMyMary said:

Certainly the best outcome... Well done for making the right call.

Quoted for truth, I'm out of likes for the day, but I'll hit you back tomorrow!

[Dakota]

21 minutes ago, MachCoyote said:

Yet every time you suggest something on the Discord, they brush it off and tell you to go post it here where it gets ignored.

The forums are the best place for suggestions because, unlike Discord, threads are evergreen and not as transient as the quick casual conversations on Discord. It also means the added benefit of being able to directly link to the suggestion and its related conversation as opposed to a link to a Discord message or a screenshot.

[calabus2]

1 hour ago, Dakota said:

The forums are the best place for suggestions because, unlike Discord, threads are evergreen and not as transient as the quick casual conversations on Discord. It also means the added benefit of being able to directly link to the suggestion and its related conversation as opposed to a link to a Discord message or a screenshot.

I completely disagree. As much as I hate to say it.... the official Reddit sub is the best place for real community feedback and suggestions. That will never happen because CMs and IG have little to no  control on what gets posted unlike here. The mods on the sub have been more than fair in their moderation. It is very clear that the same can't be said for the forums. 

I honestly don't understand how completely tone deaf IG and CMs are. Over and over again it has been said that transparency and communication is needed. And time and time again all we hear are apologies and promises to do better....for a year. At this point IG and the CMs either don't care or are unable to answer to the community that bought in and funded this train wreck. Which is it? 

[herbal space program]

I want to say thank you @Dakota for restoring the deleted content from the other thread. I understand the discussion was off topic, and for my part I promise that in the spirit of good community membership I will be more judicious in the future about where I post comments like that. Still, it felt quite harsh to just see it all yanked out of existence, as I did put a significant amount of thought into what I said, and for that reason seeing it restored makes me feel a whole lot better about my participation here. I hope others who were affected will see this significant and important gesture in the same way.

[Pthigrivi]

This may be too general a discussion for this thread, but the topic is communication, timing, and expectations. I feel as though there we're in a weird zone in gaming fan relationships where the nature of creating high-quality, novel gaming experiences requires a truly stupendous amount of labor on the part of creators. Im in design, my friends and family are in engineering, finance, software, fashion, journalism, etc. Those industries have little in common but one thing: On time, On budget, On quality. Pick two. Thats the nature of the world. I don't say this lightly but the current status quo of game criticism is actually unreasonable because it has no recognition of this fundamental reality. Further, we live in a "client is always right" world and so no one actually involved in the production will tell you literally everything you want to know minute to minute. They'll be nice and agree with you even if your expectations don't make any material sense. Thats the world you live in. Learn to live with it. Some boomer I work with loves to spend hours loudly and obnoxiously haranguing lower-level service techs about software issues that the actual human being on the other end of the phone has no means of solving. Don't be that dude. Be reasonable. Have a little self and mutual awareness and think about what material benefit your time and their time is actually worth. 

As far as I can tell the only games that have released in the last few years with minimal bugs and high-polish were kept well in-secret for most of their development existence.  We were happy and surprised in large part because there was exactly zero transparency until the product was at 99%. When it released Cyberpunk was mess, Dysonsphere was a mess, Factorio was a mess, Starfield is still kind of a mess. When ambitious games are released they are gonna kind of be a mess. Thats the nature of the biz. Thats the world you live in. If you don't have patience, if you're not willing to accept reality and wait 3 years for Cyberpunk to go from being kind of a release disaster to one of the best gaming experiences out there then you aren't being reasonable or realistic about what producing great modern games requires. Its a huge amount of cloistered incubtion followed by years of passionate fan feedback and developer follow-through. It's absolutely fine to have and voice criticisms. You absolutely need to make those criticism known. Just don't be a jerk about it. All of these artists and engineers and creative people are giving their time and their lives to make a nice little experience for you to take you away from your grueling existence for a few hours. By all means point out areas ripe for improvement, but have a little respect for the actual people on the other side of your post. Be passionate, be persistent, and be polite. 

Edited April 12 by Pthigrivi

[Flush Foot]

8 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said:

Dysonsphere was a mess

Bite your tongue! I thought DSP was “universally beloved”! (at least in the factory-builder fandom)

I don’t even remember much in the way of catastrophic bugs (and even if there were, they pushed out patches quite frequently until things stabilized).

[PDCWolf]

23 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said:

the current status quo of game criticism is actually unreasonable because

And that's how we get $70+ "AAAA" "games" that are a tencent store with some barebones skinnerbox built around them.

Nobody expects lack of bugs in an EA, but a playable (something KSP2 wasn't on release) product, with timely communication and the capability of the dev team to say X is coming Y day, and then X to come out around Y date. Or for hotfixes that aren't nebulous collections of fixes that include more untested regressions than actual fixes. KSP2 on those fronts is 0/4.

The nature of the biz is as it is because gaming happens to be one of the very few industries where you can get away with releasing a broken product without massive repercussions. You released a broken electronic device, a car, a home appliance? You get a class action lawsuit and forced into recalling, replacing, and paying for shipping. Greedy gaming companies release a minimum viable product that barely works? aww shucks, poor megacorporation, you critics are unfair!

Edited April 12 by PDCWolf