One month and counting

[Bej Kerman]

5 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

And you again ducked the question I put forth to you.  Can you prove that the game is unfixable?  What evidence do you have that the game cannot be fixed?  You have spent a lot of time stating it can't be fixed, so let's hear your proof.

I heard you the first 50 times. And no, your question is not nearly as relevant as the fact that there is no build of the game that one could call "fixed".

[kerbiloid]

If it was nonfixable, they wouldn't be afraid of publishing the source code.

[Fizzlebop Smith]

38 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

I heard you the first 50 times. And no, your question is not nearly as relevant as the fact that there is no build of the game that one could call "fixed".

Oh so now the goal post is now which part of the game is already fixed... not whether it's fixable.

So you concede your earlier stance & instead are trying to say one of the most popular games in the genre is not what?

Playable, enjoyable, genre defining, award winning? What do you mean by "fixed" 

Atealst you admit you can hear even though you have failed to make any relevant support for your claim.. while a handful of others have successfully supported their own.

 

I admit my own ignorance to navigating various forum features. I have heard mention of a block feature but seem unable to find the location on mobile. Does anyone know right off where this is located?

Edited June 10 by Fizzlebop Smith

[Bej Kerman]

1 hour ago, Fizzlebop Smith said:

Oh so now the goal post is now which part of the game is already fixed... not whether it's fixable.

So you concede your earlier stance & instead are trying to say one of the most popular games in the genre is not what?

Playable, enjoyable, genre defining, award winning? What do you mean by "fixed" 

Atealst you admit you can hear even though you have failed to make any relevant support for your claim.. while a handful of others have successfully supported their own.

These questions do not have a lot of point in them.

1 hour ago, Fizzlebop Smith said:

I admit my own ignorance to navigating various forum features. I have heard mention of a block feature but seem unable to find the location on mobile. Does anyone know right off where this is located?

It's here 

[coyotesfrontier]

3 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

These questions do not have a lot of point in them.

It's here 

I see you have just completely given up on being the valued forum member that you once were, and now spend your time giving 1 sentence replies insulting/trolling other forum members. Sad to see.

Edited June 10 by coyotesfrontier

[Stephensan]

Ksp 2 branches finally hit Staging (this is like literally the final step before public release) this can last a while and even change, but might be interesting to post

[Scarecrow71]

2 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

I heard you the first 50 times. And no, your question is not nearly as relevant as the fact that there is no build of the game that one could call "fixed".

It is relevant.  You continue to say that the game isn't fixable, and you continue to refuse to provide any proof or evidence to support your side of the discussion.  As I said earlier, I'm trying to literally get you to engage in a discussion about this, and you continue to ignore the question and/or duck it.  Being fixed is different from being able to be fixed.  You claim that the game cannot be fixed, yet this answer above only shows that you think no version of the game is fixed.  As Fizzlebop pointed out, that's a great attempt at moving the goal-posts to try and either support your argument OR confuse everyone around you into not realizing what you are doing.

I'll ask again.  And again, and again, and again.  At least until you answer the question directly.  Where is your proof that the game cannot be fixed?  I do not disagree that both KSP1 and KSP2 have problems.  Both of them have bugs and incomplete features.  I cannot dispute that.  But if you are going to claim that neither one can be fixed, then you really should back that claim up with some actual facts, lest the community continue to think that you...

18 minutes ago, coyotesfrontier said:

now spend your time giving 1 sentence replies insulting/trolling other forum members

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[coyotesfrontier]

And the most ironic thing is, KSP1 is quite literally in the process of having a large portion of its "unfixable" bugs being fixed by modders through the KSP community fixes project:

The single biggest feature of this project is the complete rewrite of the asset loader, which results in the vanilla game having a load time under 10 seconds on my average SSD, with scene switching being under 5 seconds. So the main argument that KSP2 is superior to KSP1 because of the load times falls flat here.

But I guess it's "Unfixable" so everybody else's arguments are completely invalid forever.

[Bej Kerman]

10 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

It is relevant.  You continue to say that the game isn't fixable, and you continue to refuse to provide any proof or evidence to support your side of the discussion.  As I said earlier, I'm trying to literally get you to engage in a discussion about this, and you continue to ignore the question and/or duck it.  Being fixed is different from being able to be fixed.  You claim that the game cannot be fixed, yet this answer above only shows that you think no version of the game is fixed.

My point is that you and Lisias don't have any proof it can be fixed, and you avoid confronting that truth by shifting the burden of proof. Lisias' only seems to provide hear-say like it is a kind if evidence.

10 hours ago, coyotesfrontier said:

I see you have just completely given up on being the valued forum member that you once were, and now spend your time giving 1 sentence replies insulting/trolling other forum members. Sad to see.

Oh no? Anyways,

10 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

I'll ask again.  And again, and again, and again.

You're only wasting your own time. Better have CTRL, C and V on standby.

9 hours ago, coyotesfrontier said:

The single biggest feature of this project is the complete rewrite of the asset loader, which results in the vanilla game having a load time under 10 seconds on my average SSD, with scene switching being under 5 seconds. So the main argument that KSP2 is superior to KSP1 because of the load times falls flat here.

Games from 30 years ago have beaten that.

[coyotesfrontier]

3 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

My point is that you and Lisias don't have any proof it can be fixed, and you avoid confronting that truth by shifting the burden of proof. Lisias' only seems to provide hear-say like it is a kind if evidence.

Since you are clearly trolling I shouldn't bother replying, but in the off chance you somehow actually believe what you are saying, did you just completely ignore my last post?

3 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Oh no? Anyways,

???

3 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

You're only wasting your own time. Better have CTRL, C and V on standby.

So you are admitting that this "discussion" has become circular and will continue forever until one of you chooses to stop replying. Also, I see we have graduated to two sentence replies.

3 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Games from 30 years ago have beaten that.

An unfair comparison, but also intentionally vague so you can "win" no matter who replies.

[ColdJ]

3 minutes ago, coyotesfrontier said:

Since you are clearly trolling I shouldn't bother replying, but in the off chance you somehow actually believe what you are saying, did you just completely ignore my last post?

Yes they did. They can read but they can't comprehend anything that doesn't support their narrow view.

That is why they reply with short clipped sentences that don't actually mean anything.

They are trying to get a rise out of everybody so they are best ignored.

[Bej Kerman]

6 minutes ago, coyotesfrontier said:

Since you are clearly trolling I shouldn't bother replying, but in the off chance you somehow actually believe what you are saying, did you just completely ignore my last post?

6 minutes ago, coyotesfrontier said:

So you are admitting that this "discussion" has become circular and will continue forever until one of you chooses to stop replying. Also, I see we have graduated to two sentence replies.

Is there anything in particular you're hoping to achieve by engaging with someone you believe is a troll?

[coyotesfrontier]

3 hours ago, ColdJ said:

Yes they did. They can read but they can't comprehend anything that doesn't support their narrow view.

That is why they reply with short clipped sentences that don't actually mean anything.

They are trying to get a rise out of everybody so they are best ignored.

I see. Guess my participation in this thread is done, as should everyone else's. /thread.

[Scarecrow71]

5 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

My point is that you and Lisias don't have any proof it can be fixed, and you avoid confronting that truth by shifting the burden of proof. Lisias' only seems to provide hear-say like it is a kind if evidence.

Couple of things wrong with what you said here.

First, you are the one that keeps shifting the goal posts and burden of proof.  I've asked you pointedly and directly what proof you have to show that the game cannot be fixed, and you have yet to answer the question.  In this latest example, you try to dodge the question by stating that neither I nor Lisias have proof that it can be fixed...and then state that Lisias has provided some explanation that you believe is hear-say.

Secondly, I'd like to challenge you to go find where I stated that the game can be fixed.  In fact, I'll even point out something I said in this thread as a direct response to you: 

On 6/9/2024 at 9:46 AM, Scarecrow71 said:

To be clear:  I'm not saying it is, and I'm not saying it isn't.  I can code, but not to the depth that would be required for this game.

So you either read what I wrote here and completely ignored it, or you glossed over my post and failed to see it.  Either way, you are wrong when you say that I am saying it is fixable, primarily because I never said that.  Go ahead and look through my posts in this thread; I've got all day.

5 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

You're only wasting your own time. Better have CTRL, C and V on standby.

This assumes I'm not reading your posts, but rather just spamming the thread.  Neither of which is true, because I am in fact reading your posts, and I'm responding to them directly.  Copy/Paste only works when you aren't interested in actually talking.

The big issue here is that you haven't even defined what you mean by "not fixable".  I could make the assumption that you are talking about modding the game and not the actual code...but that doesn't seem right.  Mods may make it appear that the game is fixed, but no, the underlying code is the problem as that still has issues for anyone who hasn't used the same mods someone else has.  So let's assume, then, that you are talking about the underlying game code itself and attack this conversation from there.  Are you a programmer?  Have you had the chance to actually look at the underlying code and analyze it to the point where you can say with 100% certainty that it cannot be altered so as to make the game "fixed"?  Have you had in-depth conversations with the actual developers on this topic, and if so, can you share those insights with us?

My final guess here is that you don't even know what you mean when you talk about the game being "fixed", nor do you have an idea of what state the game would need to be in to be considered as "fixed".  I think you simply have had bad experiences with bugs and just assume the game isn't fixable.  Not that you've tried, of course; why else would you continue to not answer the question, other than to protect your own narrow viewpoint?

[PDCWolf]

16 hours ago, Stephensan said:

Ksp 2 branches finally hit Staging (this is like literally the final step before public release) this can last a while and even change, but might be interesting to post

Their deadline is approaching (June 20something was it?).

Can I be snarky and say that this is the only patch that's gonna arrive inside the deadline, from a deadline we've known since a month+ ago? Not even For Science gave us a date with that much foresight IIRC.

[cocoscacao]

2 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

June 20something was it?

28th me thinks. Though I doubt they'll release it in the last moment... if they release it at all.

Edited June 11 by cocoscacao

[PDCWolf]

Just now, cocoscacao said:

28th me thinks.

Ah, thanks.

Just now, cocoscacao said:

if they decide to release it at all.

I've still got the ticket with the bet I made: They call it 1.0 and promptly never touch it again.

[cocoscacao]

5 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

I've still got the ticket with the bet I made: They call it 1.0 and promptly never touch it again.

I still don't see a reason why would they be obliged to that. However, will that patch include stuff from an entire planned roadmap? In various stages of incompleteness  ofc. It would be interesting to see it.

Edited June 11 by cocoscacao

[Fizzlebop Smith]

25 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

My final guess here is that you don't even know what you mean when you talk about the game being "fixed", nor do you have an idea of what state the game would need to be in to be considered as "fixed".  I think you simply have had bad experiences with bugs and just assume the game isn't fixable.  Not that you've tried, of course; why else would you continue to not answer the question, other than to protect your own narrow viewpoint?

The goal post was moved because the very existence of some mods, proves definitively certain aspects are absolutely fix"able".

The point you made about the mods being a bandaid is valid. If allowed to integrate these mods into the base game, and given time to squash bugs... would result in a game with many of the biggest issues summarily "fixed"

I understand the need to move the goal post. Back when I took debate classes we learned it's an instinctual response to losing an argument. Some people have a difficult time processing emotion and admitting to others they were wrong.

[PDCWolf]

9 minutes ago, cocoscacao said:

I still don't see a reason why would they be obliged to that. However, will that patch include stuff from an entire planned roadmap? In various stages of incompleteness  ofc. It would be interesting to see it.

I imagine there might be contractual obligations involved (as in, IG is forced to deliver something before getting kicked out.), it's also gonna be a PR move, since the project wasn't officially canceled and technically everything is still going OK from what the CEO said. Lastly, it covers their behinds on the legal side and stops steam from having a look at it to allow automated refunds, by not abandoning an incomplete product into eternal early access.

Edited June 11 by PDCWolf

[Meecrob]

5 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Is there anything in particular you're hoping to achieve by engaging with someone you believe is a troll?

Is there anything in particular you're hoping to achieve by being a troll that actually comes out and says "Hey guys! I'm a troll!"

I mean, It defeats the whole purpose...

[kerbiloid]

It took seven years, seven endlessly long years of futile attempts  to fix the unfixable game.

If the developers could realize its unfixability a bit earlier, they would spend all that time in doing useless work.

[Fizzlebop Smith]

3 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

It took seven years, seven endlessly long years of futile attempts  to fix the unfixable game.

If the developers could realize its unfixability a bit earlier, they would spend all that time in doing useless work.

 

Starting a project from scratch, while repeating the same mistakes as the original developers & failing to consult any single individual related to the first...

Not anything that can be realistically viewed as trying to "fix" something already in existence.

It's almost as if they attempted to make a different game.

[Bej Kerman]

11 minutes ago, Meecrob said:

5 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Is there anything in particular you're hoping to achieve by engaging with someone you believe is a troll?

Is there anything in particular you're hoping to achieve by being a troll that actually comes out and says "Hey guys! I'm a troll!"

I mean, It defeats the whole purpose...

And if we read the bit you quoted... "someone you believe is a troll" vs "someone who is a troll"

59 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

6 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

My point is that you and Lisias don't have any proof it can be fixed, and you avoid confronting that truth by shifting the burden of proof. Lisias' only seems to provide hear-say like it is a kind if evidence.

Couple of things wrong with what you said here.

First, you are the one that keeps shifting the goal posts and burden of proof.  I've asked you pointedly and directly what proof you have to show that the game cannot be fixed, and you have yet to answer the question.  In this latest example, you try to dodge the question by stating that neither I nor Lisias have proof that it can be fixed...and then state that Lisias has provided some explanation that you believe is hear-say.

Secondly, I'd like to challenge you to go find where I stated that the game can be fixed.  In fact, I'll even point out something I said in this thread as a direct response to you: 

On 6/9/2024 at 5:46 PM, Scarecrow71 said:

To be clear:  I'm not saying it is, and I'm not saying it isn't.  I can code, but not to the depth that would be required for this game.

So you either read what I wrote here and completely ignored it, or you glossed over my post and failed to see it.  Either way, you are wrong when you say that I am saying it is fixable, primarily because I never said that.  Go ahead and look through my posts in this thread; I've got all day.

6 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

You're only wasting your own time. Better have CTRL, C and V on standby.

This assumes I'm not reading your posts, but rather just spamming the thread.  Neither of which is true, because I am in fact reading your posts, and I'm responding to them directly.  Copy/Paste only works when you aren't interested in actually talking.

The big issue here is that you haven't even defined what you mean by "not fixable".  I could make the assumption that you are talking about modding the game and not the actual code...but that doesn't seem right.  Mods may make it appear that the game is fixed, but no, the underlying code is the problem as that still has issues for anyone who hasn't used the same mods someone else has.  So let's assume, then, that you are talking about the underlying game code itself and attack this conversation from there.  Are you a programmer?  Have you had the chance to actually look at the underlying code and analyze it to the point where you can say with 100% certainty that it cannot be altered so as to make the game "fixed"?  Have you had in-depth conversations with the actual developers on this topic, and if so, can you share those insights with us?

My final guess here is that you don't even know what you mean when you talk about the game being "fixed", nor do you have an idea of what state the game would need to be in to be considered as "fixed".  I think you simply have had bad experiences with bugs and just assume the game isn't fixable.  Not that you've tried, of course; why else would you continue to not answer the question, other than to protect your own narrow viewpoint?

I'll retract my claim as soon as you show me a build of the game that loads in a few seconds, can handle thousands of parts without turning into a slideshow, and doesn't implode if a Kerbal ragdolls in just the right way.

[kerbiloid]

Linux is unfixable too. Never seen it working properly.