Vanamonde Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 1 hour ago, ColdJ said: It is after midnight here but yesterday, midday was a nightmare, got maybe 5 minutes of forum out of 2 hours. That's odd. Yesterday was quite stable for me, though there were a few interruptions in the evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdJ Posted July 5 Author Share Posted July 5 37 minutes ago, Vanamonde said: That's odd. Yesterday was quite stable for me, though there were a few interruptions in the evening. I don't know your timezone but it is 2:31 am when I post this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 On 7/4/2024 at 7:04 AM, ColdJ said: If as I understand it, the company that hosts the KSP servers is used by over 40% of the web sites world wide and if I am right from stuff I have read that Chat GPT has access to the server. It may be that Chat GPT is inadvertently causing the problems by accessing the servers It reads my posts as a training set, and is going to post under kerbiloid nickname everywhere around... Forgive me, people!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdJ Posted July 5 Author Share Posted July 5 3 minutes ago, kerbiloid said: It reads my posts as a training set, and is going to post under kerbiloid nickname everywhere around... So I might be the only person who will understand CHAT GPT output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 2 hours ago, Gargamel said: If you notice, each individual post has an identifying number, and each thread has a similar number. It should be fairly “trivial” (says the person who barely understands the process) to create a bot who simply steps through the list of posts, and catalogs the text, poster, date, and the related Id numbers into a database. It’s been done before with other forums. More versions: Someone's employer payed a local freelancer analysis of his employee visiting living at this forum, and the freelancer's utility is doing a brutforce sorting of the information. Or somebody has read this thread, and decided to bruteforcely make a backup copy of the whole universe just in case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caerfinon Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 10 minutes ago, kerbiloid said: It reads my posts as a training set, and is going to post under kerbiloid nickname everywhere around... Forgive me, people!!! The singularity approaches more rapidly than I imagined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdJ Posted July 5 Author Share Posted July 5 3 minutes ago, kerbiloid said: Or somebody has read this thread, and decided to bruteforcely make a backup copy of the whole universe just in case. Got a spare 3.5 inch disc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzlebop Smith Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Someone had made a comment about AI potentially contributing to the connection issues. I am quite ignorant as to what occurs behind the scenes. Might as well be magic. CoPilot told me it was quite possibly the case. 505 being upstream, people may experience issues at different times. Lost in the cross talk? I told CoPilot, Bing.. all of em to explain like I'm five and use as many words as possible and for some reason the forum went down.... I always include please and thank you in my prompts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthvader15001 Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 On 7/5/2024 at 10:47 AM, ColdJ said: It is after midnight here but yesterday, midday was a nightmare, got maybe 5 minutes of forum out of 2 hours. Dang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSS_Snag Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 Yeah 502 errors constantly for a week or so now, Just have to spam refresh the page to hopefully get a connection once every 10 mins or so. Lucky to even type this comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdJ Posted July 9 Author Share Posted July 9 @damerell You said "If you have another misconception, please just _say_ what it is. I'm not going to try and correct errors if I have to squeeze them out of you one word at a time." In response to me saying "Ok, lets assume that the AI companies make their own copies of the entire internet for their algorithms. where do they host their servers?" Even if you believe I am wrong, there was a clear question. Now in my experience, people who answer without actually answering, have a strong opinion on a topic but have no actual proof or credentials to back it up. You responded to my initial post where I said. " I did a shallow dive into the phenomenom and I have a theory. If as I understand it, the company that hosts the KSP servers is used by over 40% of the web sites world wide and if I am right from stuff I have read that Chat GPT has access to the server. It may be that Chat GPT is inadvertently causing the problems by accessing the servers , looking for data, at a rate far greater than humans alone would be doing. And these high speed and numerous calls to the servers are overwelming them. When they were first established they would not have been thinking of the servers being accessed as fast as these AI programs do." A few people commented that through their experience that they felt something atleast similar to this might be going on. Now you felt strongly enough to comment and say that my theory was wrong. Well the rules on this are easy. If you believe that my theory is wrong, you provide evidence to prove me wrong. You show that you are an AI industry insider and so have clear knowledge of how the system works. If you are not, then you provide links to reputable articles that I can read to prove I am wrong. If you can't do this, but just have a gut feeling that I am wrong, then you don't quote me in the first place and keep it to yourself. I see statements all the time that I feel are wrong, but I don't comment on them unless I can backup my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 22 minutes ago, ColdJ said: lets assume that the AI companies make their own copies of the entire internet for their algorithms It's here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 (edited) https://www.reuters.com/technology/artificial-intelligence/openai-working-new-reasoning-technology-under-code-name-strawberry-2024-07-12/ Quote ChatGPT maker OpenAI is working on a novel approach to its artificial intelligence models in a project code-named “Strawberry,” <...> Researchers Reuters interviewed say that reasoning is key to AI achieving human or super-human-level intelligence. The super-AI, thinking Kerbal, is definitely a superhuman intelligence. The probably learn it here on the best Kerbal experts information and opinions. Edited July 13 by kerbiloid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisias Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Thursday afternoon (GMT-3), I had noticed Forum was getting yet more 502 Bad Gateways than "normal". I noticed that at that time, in the few times I managed to load the front page, the number of guests were about 6.7K - way more than usual, that it's about 1.3K +/- 1.5k at peak times. That was almost a DDoS attack, almost 5 times the usual guests... Sooo, yeah... I think the problem is not exactly Forum, but the extra load of people trying to scrap Forum by themselves. T2 probably cut down some costs in their infrastructure, but given that right now Forum is allright with 1.2K guests, I think that there was some slack on that infrastructure at first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gargamel Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 1 hour ago, Lisias said: Sooo, yeah... I think the problem is not exactly Forum, but the extra load of people trying to scrap Forum by themselves. The 500’s started before the scrapings did, much earlier in the spring. There have been numerous reports of similar traffic from other sites across the net supposedly. But yes, they do seem to spike in the mid to late afternoon EST, which is about when the majority of the world’s population is asleep. Means the AI bots are at least courteous enough to try to bother as few people as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisias Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 1 hour ago, Gargamel said: Means the AI bots are at least courteous enough to try to bother as few people as possible. Perhaps we could send them that torrent I'm building? That would save you guys some serious bandwidth... These <insert your favorite non-forum-compliant expletive here> AI companies are literally using our money to make money - for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdJ Posted July 27 Author Share Posted July 27 16 hours ago, Gargamel said: But yes, they do seem to spike in the mid to late afternoon EST, which is about when the majority of the world’s population is asleep We don't all live in the USA time zone. For me it is quite often early to mid morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisias Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 (edited) 3 hours ago, ColdJ said: We don't all live in the USA time zone. For me it is quite often early to mid morning. Taking the hint, and elaborating over it (I have some time to burn right now... ). Most people are students or workers, so they are not available for playing between 07:00 and 19:00 (I'm considering commuting) in their local time. Assuming most people enjoys sleeping from 22:00 to 06:00 local time, we have a time window for playing from 19:00 to 22:00 local time. So, assuming late afternoon as being 16:00 GMT-5 (on Summer), that playing time window I mentioned from 19 to 22 local time would be at GMT-8 to GMT+11. Essentially the western parts of USA and Canada, Alaska (Magenta on the map below): https://www.timeanddate.com/time/map/ And these are not exactly the areas with the most population density in the world! 16:00 EST is around 12:00 on Greenwich (UK, Western Europe and Africa) and Dawn to Morning up to India and western China. So, yeah, it's exactly the opposite - most people on the Word are awake, but studying or working (or preparing to) and, so, not hitting this Forum with their browsers. Edited July 27 by Lisias Yeah, tyops... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gargamel Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 11 hours ago, ColdJ said: We don't all live in the USA time zone. For me it is quite often early to mid morning. That’s…. That’s pretty much what I said there. …. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdJ Posted July 28 Author Share Posted July 28 3 hours ago, Gargamel said: That’s…. That’s pretty much what I said there. …. Sorry if that was confusing. What I was saying in long form is that most people sleep for roughly 8 hours, there are 24 hours in a day, 3 times 8 is 24, so as the Earth rotates, moving the morning and night around the globe there is usually 2 thirds of the population awake at any one time in a sort of a mexican wave of sleep flowing around the Earth. So though a particular time zone chunk might be majority asleep at the time, that can't be said for majority of the world as the majority, 2 thirds, is awake at any particular time. So I was suggesting that the AI might be courteous to to their makers in the time zone they were created in, but not to the majority of the world. Then made the assumption that a major AI resides in the USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisias Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 (edited) 1 hour ago, ColdJ said: What I was saying in long form is that most people sleep for roughly 8 hours, there are 24 hours in a day, 3 times 8 is 24, so as the Earth rotates, moving the morning and night around the globe there is usually 2 thirds of the population awake at any one time in a sort of a mexican wave of sleep flowing around the Earth. Yep, but most of them will be working, studying or commuting - so most of these awaken people would not be browsing Forum neither on a working day. Interesting enough, and again on a working day, the less worst time to hit the Forum's servers would be indeed about 16:00 GMT-5 (EST), because (and assuming my axiom about most people hitting the services between 19:00 and 22:00 local time is correct) at that time, the timezones on the "playingtime" would be on some of the lesser population density areas in the World. So Gargamel is right about the time the IA scrappers hitting the Forum being the less worst, he apparently made a mistake on trying to explain why. Being awake is not enough, people need to have some time to burn in order to hit Forum's servers with significant load. I think you got it right about most people being awake, but I think you made a mistake on assuming that these people would be available to hitting Forum while awake. They have a relatively tiny time window to hit here in volume on their waking hours. Edited July 28 by Lisias Hit "Save" too soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 The 502s usually happen in evening in Moscow Time, i.e. in the Green Witch Time afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdJ Posted July 28 Author Share Posted July 28 5 minutes ago, Lisias said: Being awake is not enough, people need to have some time to burn in order to hit Forum's servers with significant load. Specifically I was just responding to the statement. On 7/27/2024 at 7:25 AM, Gargamel said: which is about when the majority of the world’s population is asleep. Just the fact that there is no time that the majority of the world is asleep. As to the reasonings of AI's, I cannot be definite in anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisias Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 (edited) 15 minutes ago, kerbiloid said: The 502s usually happen in evening in Moscow Time, i.e. in the Green Witch Time afternoon. I'm experiencing them about 14:00 GMT-3 on working days, but can't say if only on that time because I'm usually working, and now and then come to my personal rig to check the scrapping logs. It happens that at 14:00 it's near the end of the lunch time, and I still have some time to burn on a good day. On weekends, they happen almost all the day. Edited July 28 by Lisias brute force post UNmerge - I had read wrongly the post I quoted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 41 minutes ago, Lisias said: On weekends, they happen almost all the day. Either too many users are free, and overload the server. Or the second-hand clothes shop, hosting the KSP forum these days, is closed on weekend, and they switch off the electricity in the dungeon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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