Negative things about the game, development, and the silence

[Izny]

Since all other things get locked since it's deemed off-topic, let's make a thread where it is specifically on topic.

Day 1 of KSP2 being without devs. Not a peep from the studios or anyone involved. 
It's Disgusting. 

Absolutely disgusting.

 

[Infinite Aerospace]

I suspect we'll have to get used to it, because I don't expect to hear a word from anyone at Take Two Interactive, it's not their MO.

[mc04]

inb4 half the posts get redacted and the thread locked.

[dok_377]

Oh, negative stuff, you say? Well, just about everything. The whole situation was a giant dumpster fire from the very beginning to the very end. Period.

I'm sure this message and/or the whole thread will stay where they are and nothing will happen.

[The Aziz]

Negative? Let's see

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/119-ksp2-discussion/

 

[Izny]

3 hours ago, The Aziz said:

Negative? Let's see

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/119-ksp2-discussion/

 

epic XD

 

[Superfluous J]

10 hours ago, mc04 said:

inb4 half the posts get redacted and the thread locked.

Well off-topic ones like this could be.

[Scarecrow71]

I realize that we aren't a very large section of the overall gaming community, and that we probably don't generate a whole lot of income for companies.  I also realize that this is a pretty niche genre as far as games go, and it isn't as popular as an FPS or that auto theft title that has millions of players.  I get it.

With that said, we are a tight-knit and dedicated community, passionate about this franchise and the possibilities for gaming in its universe.  We have a really dedicated section of players who actively look to improve the game through mods, and several people who stream videos simply to help others get involved and off the ground (literally and figuratively).  And it makes me angry that Take Two and their corporate mouthpiece @Nate Simpson treated us so poorly.  We were consistently lied to during initial development, and then after EA dropped we were almost wholly ignored.  And now that IG is shut down and a lot of people are out of work, we can't even get a simple statement as to what happened or why.  Heck, we only found out this was going to happen thanks to the laws of the state of WA.

My thanks and condolences go out to the staff who were on the front lines dealing with the fallout.  My anger and disgust is directed at Take Two and Nate.  I will never support another title from Take Two, and I certainly won't dive into anything that Nate is associated with.

[Deddly]

On 6/29/2024 at 12:24 PM, mc04 said:

inb4 half the posts get redacted and the thread locked.

For what? I don't see any rules being broken. Feel free to report anything positive about KSP2 in this thread and we'll likely remove it as off topic. 

 

As to the topic, I am really disappointed that the hardware requirements for KSP2 were even more demanding than those for KSP1. People want to build giant monstrosities and ships with several thousand parts without watching a slideshow. That's what I was most looking forward to in KSP2, and it never appeared to even get close. No idea as to what the future would have held, but that's the game we ended up with. 

[Yakuzi]

3 hours ago, Deddly said:

As to the topic, I am really disappointed that the hardware requirements for KSP2 were even more demanding than those for KSP1.

No no, that's not right. I get that this thread is about negative things about the game and its development, but there's no need to be overly negative... the developer has specifically stated that KSP2 performs way better than KSP1 (source):

Quote

VGC: So in short, it will perform a lot better than the original?

Nate Simpson: Oh… way better. Way better.

I'm sorry to say, but if it runs poorly it's prolly on your end. Or maybe your expectations are just too high? In any case, the current internal build likely handles 10,000 part vessels with ease in multiplayer. And judging by the latest record update on Steam the next update is about to drop any day now. Although there's a small chance it may be delayed a bit... I heard the devs are having so much fun playing the game they forget to come into the office. But who can blame them? Just let'm cook!

On topic: I really don't like the cadence of the updates. Without a proper bug-tracker I barely have enough time to re-test and resubmit all the bug reports from previous versions. So please take all the time you need to work hard devs!

 

Final PSA for y'all: This is just a game, maybe go outside and touch grass. It helped me stay rational despite all the deadly negativity on the forums.

 

PS I love you @Deddly 

[GGG-GoodGuyGreg]

Gee I hope this isn't going to be a Duke Nukem Forever type of development, all over again. By the end it was finally released they weren't sure exactly what they were releasing, or maybe the initial target group wasn't anymore interested after years of deception and restarting the progress.

If that turns out to be true, I for one am going to consider KSP 1 has yet to receive a sequel, because this ain't it.

[Deddly]

That's some masterclass level sarcasm there, @Yakuzi 

[Superfluous J]

I hated:

• That font.
• Orbit lines turning into sub-orbit lines on reload.
• Needing to reload a lot, causing the above.
• Having to name your ship twice in the VAB, and not even being able to set names for each command module with priorities like in KSP1.
• Not being able to snap radially-attached parts to exactly the center of the top of your command module (or any other part but that's the one I always do it to)
• That I could never figure out how to modify axial tilt to whatever I wanted.
• What happened to a community that I've been a part of for more years than I've been in any single house/apartment in my adult life (and in a few more years, it would/will be more than the home I grew up in)
• I'm sure there's more but that last one's a good one to end on.

[Izny]

4 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

I hated:

• That font.
• Orbit lines turning into sub-orbit lines on reload.
• Needing to reload a lot, causing the above.
• Having to name your ship twice in the VAB, and not even being able to set names for each command module with priorities like in KSP1.
• Not being able to snap radially-attached parts to exactly the center of the top of your command module (or any other part but that's the one I always do it to)
• That I could never figure out how to modify axial tilt to whatever I wanted.
• What happened to a community that I've been a part of for more years than I've been in any single house/apartment in my adult life (and in a few more years, it would/will be more than the home I grew up in)
• I'm sure there's more but that last one's a good one to end on.

that font...    we should have known everything would go moobs up looking at the inability to fix a font indeed.

now, my real gripe:  docking ports being some kind of kraken device. the times i've seen my craft spaghettify itself when trying to add a rescue capsule...

[Scarecrow71]

On 7/2/2024 at 7:14 PM, Superfluous J said:

Having to name your ship twice in the VAB, and not even being able to set names for each command module with priorities like in KSP1.

Of all the nits I would have to pick on KSP2, this one is probably at the top of the list.  I understand the idea they were shooting for with workspaces, being allowed to create multiple vehicles in one space that you could then use at your whim.  But having to name a craft and the workspace it's in with the same name?  And then not allowing renaming of a craft in flight, or allowing priority as you mentioned, was just short-sighted.  Not to mention that we couldn't set the type of craft (probe, rover, command pod, etc.), so they all showed up as the ship icon in the map view.

On 7/2/2024 at 7:14 PM, Superfluous J said:

Not being able to snap radially-attached parts to exactly the center of the top of your command module (or any other part but that's the one I always do it to)

How about the fact that the Mk1 Command Pod wasn't centered in and of itself?  Drop this bad boy in the VAB, and you'll see that the door to the command pod is at a 30ish degree angle away from the center of the pod.  Sure, you can use the rotate tool to get it right, but because of where it is all other parts you attach to it - say, science gadgets, radially attached chutes, or a ladder - have to also then be moved.  Why on Kerbin's green surface did the developers allow that to happen?

On 7/2/2024 at 7:14 PM, Superfluous J said:

What happened to a community that I've been a part of for more years than I've been in any single house/apartment in my adult life (and in a few more years, it would/will be more than the home I grew up in)

This is the saddest piece of the puzzle, all told.

[Fizzlebop Smith]

On 7/2/2024 at 7:14 PM, Superfluous J said:

I hated:

• That font.
• Orbit lines turning into sub-orbit lines on reload.
• Needing to reload a lot, causing the above.
• Having to name your ship twice in the VAB, and not even being able to set names for each command module with priorities like in KSP1.
• Not being able to snap radially-attached parts to exactly the center of the top of your command module (or any other part but that's the one I always do it to)
• That I could never figure out how to modify axial tilt to whatever I wanted.
• (Snip)
• I'm sure there's more but that last one's a good one to end on.
  

Sums it up well. I would understand the nature of the workspace if i could have figure out what it was meant to do.

I actually ran a series of tests where i would name the Workspace a unique name, and the craft generic. Then i would name the workspace generic, with unique on the craft to figure out the logic.

If workspaces are unique.. shouldn't I be able to call multiple vessels: Vessel 1. Like many of those things the community could not fathom, it would all make sense in due time. Well im wondering now when that time will be? 
 

[Icegrx]

I think the worst thing is coming to check on things after leaving for a few weeks, and all I see are locked threads, merged threads, and heavy moderating. 
 

why are you doing this? Whose image are you trying to protect and why? I can understand if people are attacking each other, but besides that why are you moderating like this?
 

who cares if there are 20 posts about the same thing, at least people are still talking to each other. What on earth is that hurting? KSP2 isn’t even at the top of the page anymore and development is dead. Who cares if the forums get a bit messy. 
 

id much much rather see activity than a nicely purged and clean forum. 
 

[Deddly]

3 hours ago, Icegrx said:

all I see are locked threads, merged threads, and heavy moderating. 

I'm happy to discuss this via PM but this isn't the place for it.

Short explanation in the spoiler below.

Spoiler

It's what you don't see that is the problem, Icegrx. If you could see all the posts that had to be removed, all the identical threads rehashing the exact same arguments and all the personal attacks, it would make more sense to you.

But let's get back on topic.

I don't like the size of the navball, and I don't like the style of it either. I'm willing to learn, but It's a shame I have to learn it a second time.

[Superfluous J]

8 hours ago, Icegrx said:

I think the worst thing is coming to check on things after leaving for a few weeks, and all I see are locked threads, merged threads, and heavy moderating. 
 

why are you doing this?

Because otherwise all you'd see is rehashing all the same things and people arguing about if we should or should not rehash all the old things.

There's literally nothing left to say yet people are saying it anyway. Over and over and over.

[Gargamel]

5 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

There's literally nothing left to say yet people are saying it anyway. Over and over and over.

And then complaining about “over moderation” when things turn violent.  Our rules have never changed,  in fact, I think we’ve lightened up on them some to let people vent their anger.   

We don’t need 28 threads discussing the same thing.    We don’t need arguments merely for the sake of belittling others.  We don’t need threats of physical violence against the devs and others who aren’t carrying pitchforks over this issue.  
 

We don’t care what your exact opinion is, hell, we probably share it.    We’re liquided off too.   There’s no image to protect, it’s done and gone. That ship has sailed.       But what we do need to protect is this community.    And given the quality of humanity that has shown up here over the last couple months, I’m starting to lose hope.   
 

This is the most we’ve ever openly talked about our moderation policies in general.   For privacy reasons, we normally ask that we discuss this type of stuff in PM’s, as Deddly mentioned above,   But there are enough stresses on the community in general right now that we’ve opened up some to hopefully make people feel safer about the moderation team.

 

And as Deddly has also mentioned, this is way off topic for this thread, I’m not even sure what thread this is to be honest, but we’d be glad to discuss what we can in another thread.    The “ask the mods” thread would be a good place to start     

 

[Jacke]

On 7/2/2024 at 6:12 PM, GGG-GoodGuyGreg said:

Gee I hope this isn't going to be a Duke Nukem Forever type of development, all over again. By the end it was finally released they weren't sure exactly what they were releasing, or maybe the initial target group wasn't anymore interested after years of deception and restarting the progress.

If that turns out to be true, I for one am going to consider KSP 1 has yet to receive a sequel, because this ain't it.

TL;dr:  KSP 2 is far far worse a matter than DNF.

Compared to KSP 2, DNF development was long and drawn out but the game was at least functional more or less at the end.  I played through quite a bit of it.  There's even more that's been done with DLC and mods, I think.  And from what we can tell, if a new KSP game was started, there's less of KSP 2 that's worth being used in a new development than what i think happened with DNF's major changes.  And it's highly likely that no KSP successor game ever gets made.

[Death Engineering]

I come from a fairly extensive KSP1 experience, so I agree with most or all of the things wrong with KSP2 mentioned here. 

The one thing I will add that really irked me was how "disposable" KSP2 made Kerbals seem. In KSP1, the game was generally stable enough and game-play was logical enough that Kerbals rarely experienced glitch-based de-Kerbalizing. 

Sure, sure.. spaghettification and landing leg mishaps, but in KSP2, the game seemed hell-bent on chewing through as many Kerbals as  possible. In KSP1, we'd plan a rescue mission and the stranded Kerbal would still be there. In KSP2, you'd be lucky to replicate the landing zone without physics glitching. And a safe EVA over to the rescue vehicle was a slim chance. (This may have been better on last update; I gave up long ago).

From auto-loading too many crew, falling through the surface of bodies, just plain vanishing between saves.. I started to care very little about "rescues" or getting them home safe. The game wouldn't even let me, more often than not.

Save-game management/confusion also contributed to this lack of interest in making it a safe and successful mission. And I never once really understood the vessel management system. 

Maybe it's my style of play and over-familiarity with KSP1, but for my gameplay experience, KSP2 made me care less about the Kerbals. And being in the game's title, that to me seems problematic. 

I've gone back to KSP1, modded and pretty, and happier for it. 

What's really sad is that KSP2 only needed to be a tightening up of the code and incorporate some popular parts and visual mods. For example: Rollercoaster Tycoon 2

Lastly, IMHO, at it's heart KSP2 would never have worked. It was doomed from the start.

With the amount of rendering and physics going on, by the time things were scaled to interplanetary vessels and multiplayer, we'd have been all buying new computers (again!).

 

 

 

[Fizzlebop Smith]

I too weep for the plight of the once courageous (and usually stupid) Kerbals. The lack of Rosters showing the deceased, no mission specialists that you grow found of after EVA related missions, no hiring / selection process. My career playthroughs also have attachments form. I have built installations because the first Kerbal touching down died in glory.

The lack of comnet led exploration was my biggest disappointment. I wanted to discover anomalies through scanning and be prompted to search further

I wanted some missions that promoted build up and climax. Not one pretty asset after another. I think their attempt at career was beyond lackluster.  Someone somewhere on the team was convinced Exploration was the game mode to answer all playstyles. Instead.. they turned a sandbox with no wrong way to play.. into KSP2.

 

[Vexillar]

Omitting ComNet and Kerbal specialisations could have been forgiven temporarily while the EA was stabilised, but as up-front design decisions, not at all.

The game was supposed to simulate running a space agency, which involves infrastructure and assets of the kerbal and non-kerbal kind. Colonies should have given even more scope/need for those topics - perhaps even more specialisations could have been woven in.

Hugely missed opportunity.  

[KerbolExplorer]

20 hours ago, Fizzlebop Smith said:

I too weep for the plight of the once courageous (and usually stupid) Kerbals. The lack of Rosters showing the deceased, no mission specialists that you grow found of after EVA related missions, no hiring / selection process. My career playthroughs also have attachments form. I have built installations because the first Kerbal touching down died in glory.

The lack of comnet led exploration was my biggest disappointment. I wanted to discover anomalies through scanning and be prompted to search further

I wanted some missions that promoted build up and climax. Not one pretty asset after another. I think their attempt at career was beyond lackluster.  Someone somewhere on the team was convinced Exploration was the game mode to answer all playstyles. Instead.. they turned a sandbox with no wrong way to play.. into KSP2.

 

I absolutely agree with you. The game just lack most of the charm the first one had. It's honestly amazing how disconnected I felt from the kerbals while playing this game. If one died it wasn't an issue since they would be replaced without any charge and without the risk of loosing the only pilot that had all the SAS controls.

Also I feel like the career mode for ksp1 was straight up better, I like having to work with the limitations of the initial KSC, having to find a way to optimize the space ship to use 30 parts or having to eye ball a mun flyby. Meanwhile in ksp2 you can probably get a duna flyby with the initial parts tbh.