TakeTwo has sold Private Division

[Scarecrow71]

Let's all try to keep in mind that this is speculation on if PD even owns the IP.  Did they retain the rights to it when TT acquired Squad and set the publisher up?  Or did TT buy the rights and simply allowed PD to distribute?

[MechBFP]

1 hour ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Let's all try to keep in mind that this is speculation on if PD even owns the IP.  Did they retain the rights to it when TT acquired Squad and set the publisher up?  Or did TT buy the rights and simply allowed PD to distribute?

Take Two owns PD so by extension they own all the IPs as well. They made it abundantly clear in the statement regarding the sale that they are focusing on big AAA titles and mobile games, and therefore sold off everything PD was working on since that was their “indie”/small title division. 

And since it is pretty obvious KSP doesn’t fall into either of those categories, the only logical conclusion is that it was sold with PD. 

[Scarecrow71]

Just now, MechBFP said:

Take Two owns PD so by extension they own all the IPs as well. They made it abundantly clear in the statement regarding the sale that they are focusing on big AAA titles and mobile games, and therefore sold off everything PD was working on since that was their “indie”/small title division. 

And since it is pretty obvious KSP doesn’t fall into either of those categories, the only logical conclusion is that it was sold with PD. 

It is still speculation.  No articles that have been put out indicate for certain what titles are included in the sale.  Anybody who, at this point, says that KSP is definitively included  is simply guessing.

[Superfluous J]

3 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

It is still speculation.  No articles that have been put out indicate for certain what titles are included in the sale.  Anybody who, at this point, says that KSP is definitively included  is simply guessing.

While true, it'd be pretty surprising if they ripped all the actual IP out of the company before selling it. Unless someone literally wanted just the name and was offering enough money for it to make the paperwork worth it.

And I think it's even less likely that they hand-selected KSP to keep while selling off everything else.

They're not malicious. They just don't care about us.

Edited November 8 by Superfluous J

[PDCWolf]

7 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

It is still speculation.  No articles that have been put out indicate for certain what titles are included in the sale.  Anybody who, at this point, says that KSP is definitively included  is simply guessing.

Yeah, like saying our current events being T2 repeating what they did to 2k Marin with IG was speculation .

Private Division is a subsidiary of Take Two. The legal definition of that is that they're legally beholden to and controlled by Take Two. Now, going a bit further back, in 2017 Take Two acquired Kerbal Space Program, the full IP, And from their own investor presentations, they've clearly given ownership of the IP to Private Division. So it's clear that internally, the IP ownership was passed on to their own subsidiary. Private Division owns the IP. It'd be very weird for them to retake ownership of the KSP IP before selling it. In reality, you can be sure no one cares about Private Division for the name Private Division or the talent therein, what sells is the IPs they own.

 

[purpleivan]

16 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

I agree. I'm not sure that many people realise PD isn't just Squad plus KSP and its ports/sequel, but also...

I'm guessing The Outer Worlds is the biggest one here. I don't think RW could afford it (they can hardly afford to maintain Stationeers), let alone all these other games just for the sake of Kerbal fanservice and avoiding coming up with a new identity. The KSP ripoff title is a working title and it's probably not a hint that RW has been organising a buyout of PD so it can sell another KSP sequel.

Plus, interstellar and colonies are not confirmed. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it would have  to contain these late-game elements for them to sell it as "KSP 3" to new buyers who were disappointed that KSP 2 didn't have these features.

It's possible that whoever bought PD didn't plan to keep all the IP that it has, but may have been negotiating a sale of some of them, to one or more interested parties. Of course that would make for pretty complicated negotiations and planning, but it's not out of the question. So, in theory at least, company X (not suggesting it would be RW) could buy up PD, with a sale of the KSP rights to company Y (again, not likely to be RW, but a publisher or other project financier) with RW lined up as the developer for to the work for company Y.

All of that is wild speculation, but the wick seems to have been turned up regarding talk around KSA, a couple days before the news of the PD sale is confirmed.

Might mean something or, it's just coincidence... and those things happen all the time.

Either way, an attempt to revive the KSP franchise by RW, given the people involved, would (on the face of it at least) be a good thing... if it happened.

[Scarecrow71]

@MechBFP @PDCWolf @Superfluous J

Show me an article where it is explicitly stated what IPs are included in the sale.  Until you can do that, you cannot prove that KSP was included.  It really is that simple.  The lot of you have continued over the years to say you support facts.  Well, the fact is that nobody knows because neither TT nor the purchaser of the studio - who hasn't been made public either - has said which titles are involved.  Therefore, until we get confirmation, we are all just guessing.

[PDCWolf]

2 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

@MechBFP @PDCWolf @Superfluous J

Show me an article where it is explicitly stated what IPs are included in the sale.  Until you can do that, you cannot prove that KSP was included.  It really is that simple.  The lot of you have continued over the years to say you support facts.  Well, the fact is that nobody knows because neither TT nor the purchaser of the studio - who hasn't been made public either - has said which titles are involved.  Therefore, until we get confirmation, we are all just guessing.

A hypothesis is not a guess, that's science 101. What differentiates our hypotheses from simple guesses is a boatload of environmental information and previous experiences, and literal word of T2 that Private Division owns the IP. But hey, just like with the 2k marin comparison, let's just wait and see who's right.

 

Edited November 8 by PDCWolf

[Gargamel]

34 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Therefore, until we get confirmation, we are all just guessing.

There’s a difference between guessing and assumptions of high probability.     Nothings written in stone yet, probably not even the sale of PD is final since details haven’t been released.   Let’s not go nit picking stuff for arguments sake.  
We’re all speculatively hopeful this is what we dream it might be, else we wouldn’t be here.   Doubt and trepidation is healthy, but we don’t need to be having arguments of details that don’t exist yet.   

Edited November 8 by Gargamel

[modus]

Indeed.

Indeed.

[Gargamel]

Some posts have been removed.    
 

We don’t care who started it.   Please don’t argue about details that don’t exist yet.  If you have a problem with moderation, please contact us privately.   

[NexusHelium]

3 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Show me an article where it is explicitly stated what IPs are included in the sale.

I mean alright

https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/take-two-has-sold-private-division-to-an-undisclosed-buyer

Spoiler

"As part of this transaction, the buyer purchased our rights to substantially all of Private Division’s live and unreleased titles. Take-Two will continue to support No Rest for the Wicked, which launched in Early Access on PC in April," 

This doesn't necessarily have to include KSP but let's be honest... They don't care about KSP anymore... there's simply no point to not include it in the sale if they get a little extra cash.

[herbal space program]

Well, I'll just throw in my 2 cents and say this is definitely a ray of hope, but I'm not holding my breath either. Time will tell if the new owner of KSP does anything with it.

[Scarecrow71]

3 hours ago, NexusHelium said:

https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/take-two-has-sold-private-division-to-an-undisclosed-buyer

But the article says nothing about which titles were actually included in the sale.  It does say:

Quote

Private Division has worked on notable titles like The Outer Worlds, Kerbal Space Program 2, Olli Olli World, Rollerdrome, and Hades. Tales of the Shire is currently the publisher's only upcoming (announced) title. It's unclear whether the sale will impact the project, which is slated to launch in March 2025.

None of that says that these titles are included in the sale.  There is no article definitively saying what titles were included.  Nice try, though.  Perhaps read the article before telling me what it includes.

[PDCWolf]

Just now, Scarecrow71 said:

But the article says nothing about which titles were actually included in the sale.  It does say:

None of that says that these titles are included in the sale.  There is no article definitively saying what titles were included.  Nice try, though.  Perhaps read the article before telling me what it includes.

How is "As part of this transaction, the buyer purchased our rights to substantially all of Private Division’s live and unreleased titles." not saying exactly that?

[RileyHef]

This argument is ridiculous, in my opinion. Mr. T2 himself doesn't need to hold a separate presser to dissect the semantics of every statement made and spell it out for us letter by letter.

if anyone isn't satisfied then read T2's prepared remarks straight from the source. @Scarecrow71, take note of what I highlight in red based on your previous comment.

Quote

"In addition, we recently made the strategic decision to sell our Private Division label to focus our resources on growing our core and mobile businesses for the long-term. As part of this transaction, the buyer purchased our rights to substantially all of Private Division’s live and unreleased titles. Take-Two will continue to support No Rest for the Wicked, which launched in Early Access on PC in April. We are 4 grateful for the contributions that the Private Division team has made to our company and are confident that they will continue to achieve success in their new home."

 

56 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

But the article says nothing about which titles were actually included in the sale.

"Substantially all of Private Division's live and unreleased titles." I already know that there is going to be an argument of sorts about the use of the word "substantially", but let's just skip that whole ordeal and instead remember that since May we have known that "The publisher [T2] has been in talks to find a buyer for the Kerbal Space Program IP, with or without Intercept Games attached."

We know T2 wants to sell the KSP IP. We also know that T2 recently sold PD and "Substantially all of Private Division's live and unreleased titles" along with it. Please. I am begging that we all can put 2+2 together, connect the dots, and discuss what this sale means for the future of KSP rather than argue about something that has essentially already been said.

[boolybooly]

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/take-two-are-selling-private-division-and-closing-roll7-and-intercept-because-theyre-in-the-business-of-making-great-big-hits

Rock Paper Shotgun have also covered it. Same quotes.

But it makes me laugh all over again because why wreck a production company's productions prior to selling it?

That is not joined up thinking is it? 

"Honey lets sell our recreational vehicle."
"OK hun but remember to smash the windows and put a dent in the wing before you put it up on Craigslist, that way we can sell it for a whole lot less."

Still the good news is someone else has the IP now.

 

Edited November 8 by boolybooly

[Scarecrow71]

1 hour ago, PDCWolf said:

How is "As part of this transaction, the buyer purchased our rights to substantially all of Private Division’s live and unreleased titles." not saying exactly that?

Show me directly that KSP was included.  Show me what other titles PD owns that are explicitly mentioned in the sale.  Saying "All live and unreleased titles" doesn't state "x, y, z, and this one here, too".  It's corporate PR speak at this point.

Is KSP probably included in this?  Probably.  And when it comes out whether it truly is or not, I'll say "Hey, look, they finally told us which titles are included".  Until then, that statement means nothing.  NOTHING.  Why?  Because it's the same as the TT telling us that they were still developing KSP2 after the layoffs.  They said they were, but they really weren't, but we were supposed to think they were.  Nobody on the outside of the organization knows anything.  Heck, they won't even tell us who they sold it to, but you want to believe without confirmation that KSP was included in the sale?  And then you want to try and make me feel bad because I don't want to hop on some currently non-existent hype train?

I really don't know why I come here any longer.  All I ever get is grief over telling the truth.  And, for the record, the truth is that they have not explicitly mentioned which titles.  Show me where they do that and I'll shut up.  Until then, I will absolutely die on this hill because this hill is the truth.

[RileyHef]

Anyways!

Regardless of how literally people want to interpret this news, I want to discuss what it means. KSP2 is without any of it's former developers/staff and some have even moved on to KSA already instead. If another studio wants to do anything with the KSP IP I am pretty confident that it will have nothing to with KSP2. Just consider the game's...

• terrible reputation, poor reviews, and impressive ranking as the 29th worst ranked game on Steam EVER.
• outdated codebase based on KSP and reliance on the Unity engine (of which we have all seen it's shortcomings and hard technical ceiling).
• unfinished state, with early access still needing to hit 4 of 5 early access milestones (not to mention the difficulty of implementing such substantial features without ideal resources from the former staff who planned them. If IG essentially gave up on multiplayer how confident are we that any newcomers could fare better?)

All that is to just essentially say that there is no reason any company would want to touch KSP2 with a 100 foot pole. So what does that mean - KSP3? Maybe some day, but if that were the case it would be several years away at least. I do think some radio silence would be a good reset for the franchise after all the damage KSP2 did. I also would hope that any quiet time would be used for planning and developing another KSP game. But who knows - I'm honestly not very confident in that happening either.

I see this news as confirmation that KSP won't be back anytime soon in any form. I'm happy that the original KSP game exists as well as all of the mods still being worked on in the meantime. I can still play this game for years without getting bored. I am also excited to see what comes from KSA! Part of me wants to believe in the tin foil hat theory of KSA getting the KSP rights... but if I could love anything more that Kerbals it would be cats, so I guess I'd be happy either way if that project comes to fruition.

All in all, I take this news as just another reminder to be at peace with the discontinuation of professional development of the KSP franchise, whether that be for the next five years or for however long as I'm around.

[Bej Kerman]

1 hour ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Show me directly that KSP was included.  Show me what other titles PD owns that are explicitly mentioned in the sale.  Saying "All live and unreleased titles" doesn't state "x, y, z, and this one here, too".  It's corporate PR speak at this point.

"x through z" surely includes y?

[PDCWolf]

2 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Show me directly that KSP was included.

My guy, at this level you're just nitpicking semantics to have something to be right about and can't be discussed, you're not arguing a point or sharing an opinion. I really fail to understand what you want from people discussing this topic. The sentence literally says that substantially all of Private Division's live and unreleased titles are part of the deal, that group includes KSP 1 and 2 as both games are currently live for sale and playable. I'm not attacking you or getting mad at you, I'm just confused at what your point even is.

1 hour ago, RileyHef said:

Anyways!

Regardless of how literally people want to interpret this news, I want to discuss what it means. KSP2 is without any of it's former developers/staff and some have even moved on to KSA already instead. If another studio wants to do anything with the KSP IP I am pretty confident that it will have nothing to with KSP2. Just consider the game's...

• terrible reputation, poor reviews, and impressive ranking as the 29th worst ranked game on Steam EVER.
• outdated codebase based on KSP and reliance on the Unity engine (of which we have all seen it's shortcomings and hard technical ceiling).
• unfinished state, with early access still needing to hit 4 of 5 early access milestones (not to mention the difficulty of implementing such substantial features without ideal resources from the former staff who planned them. If IG essentially gave up on multiplayer how confident are we that any newcomers could fare better?)

I've been spinning something up after what happened to palworld. Pure, wild speculation, obviously, but please do follow me: burnout for the AAA/MTX/DLC/SEASONPASS formula is very real, people are flocking away from it to the point about 500.000 people actually went and bought a game as bad as Veilguard hoping it'd give them something as fresh and away from the usual slop like BG3 did. Seeing this trend, corporations are moving towards trying to capture their own mega-franchises:

1. Sony is pursuing Palworld. They're stepping in to defend them against Nintendo and have actually worked out a deal for rights to the franchise because they want the whole pokemon package, like plushies, spinoffs, anime and so on. They also shot their shot with Destiny, though that went horribly.
2. Microsoft has Halo, they've reworked 343 to not repeat the mistakes of Infinite, worked to bring the MCC for easily accessible legacy titles, and are now looking towards the future. They tried the TV series, hopefully learned from that. Minecraft is Microsoft's other horse, much more family friendly, already well established, got expanded into as many devices as they could, will probably launch on steam at some point, already has merch, and a movie coming up.
3. Gearbox was trying really hard with Borderlands, the movie was a huge flop, BL4 is expected to be that as well. They got bought off, keep reading.
4. Nintendo has Pokemon, the literal highest grossing media franchise in history.

Take Two can't really do this with GTA, as big as it is, nor RDR or anything else, as these things clearly have to be all-ages. Also games like GTA and RDR clearly take way too long to produce, and even if they're well established, they're a huge risk that drags profits down really hard, as T2's stock and earning calls have demonstrated for about three years now. So they wanted to try this with Kerbal, what they thought was a cheap, easy to make indie that could make it big. Obviously they shot themselves in the foot by hiring a bunch of amateurs and cutting their stubby wings off, making them completely unfit for what the already existing Kerbal community expected. They've now bought Gearbox, probably to try again with either Risk of Rain or Borderlands (movie came out, BL4 soon).

Now, some other player with big money saw the opportunity and really wants to try again at making KSP into a mega franchise. This is probably why people like @Lisias thought of Tencent. They have the money to do it, they have multiple studios they could easily throw the work at, and they have China, where KSP still doesn't have a marred reputation and it's also a market with plenty of money for the taking.

So yeah, my money is on some really big player that's gonna completely turn KSP into something entirely different to sell it to people who aren't us. Of course the pipe dream is that some charitable soul with tons of money bought it to make KSP2 into what it should've been, but that's really a pipe dream.

As an extra, since it got lost in the other thread. Private Division owns the following IPs:

1. KSP
2. OlliOlli
3. Rollerdome
4. No Rest for the Wicked (not entirely sure about this one)

So really... out of those, only one has an established name and following, and I really doubt someone bought the whole package just to make OlliOlli 2.

Edited November 9 by PDCWolf

[Scarecrow71]

1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said:

"x through z" surely includes y?

Quit being obtuse .

18 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

2 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Show me directly that KSP was included.

My guy, at this level you're just nitpicking semantics to have something to be right about and can't be discussed, you're not arguing a point or sharing an opinion. I really fail to understand what you want from people discussing this topic. The sentence literally says that substantially all of Private Division's live and unreleased titles are part of the deal, that group includes KSP 1 and 2 as both games are currently live for sale and playable. I'm not attacking you or getting mad at you, I'm just confused at what your point even is.

Wrong.  You guys are arguing ssemantics.  My point is factual and valid.  There has been nothing said to indicate PD currently owns the rights to KSP, or KSP2.  Yes, the statement says tall titles held by the publisher.  Do you have a list of said titles?  No, you don't.  Hasn't been released.  But no, I'm the one being harassed over it?  I'm arguing semantics?

The lot of you are simply hoping this means someone will develop KSP.  And the hard fact is that we.  Don't.  Know.  Period.  If you have inside information, share it.  Otherwise, shut up and leave me alone.

[PDCWolf]

8 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

There has been nothing said to indicate PD currently owns the rights to KSP, or KSP2.

Earnings call from August:

8 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Do you have a list of said titles?

29 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

As an extra, since it got lost in the other thread. Private Division owns the following IPs:

1. KSP
2. OlliOlli
3. Rollerdome
4. No Rest for the Wicked (not entirely sure about this one)

 

8 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

The lot of you are simply hoping this means someone will develop KSP.

You know the current KSP2 holds zero value for me so that's not my uhh... motivation?

Whatever. We do know things, they've said things clearly, others not so clearly but it's always come back in the end like finally confirming Intercept and Roll7 were actually closed. No one is harassing you, if you don't want to be quoted, block people or stop posting. You're not the victim of some conspiracy here and I promise I have no ill will.

[Scarecrow71]

5 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

We do know things, they've said things clearly, others not so clearly but it's always come back in the end like finally confirming Intercept and Roll7 were actually closed

And yet, instead of posting that when I said I'd let it go as soon as it was stated, you and everyone else decided not to.

I'm done.  I quit.  Despite fighting to be here, the community has shown itself to be elitist and hateful towards certain people.  I'd rather fly rockets without being here.

[Vanamonde]

Is this really something we need to get mad at each other about? Why don't we just wait and see?