Air Superiority Fighter Competition

[Mukita12]

8 hours ago, exbyde said:

Look a lot of times im uploading videos late. Spelling mistakes are to be expected. I was almost tempted to call the bryntroll and sanngrior the beartroll and sangria.

oh fair enough

[Mukita12]

https://kerbalx.com/Mukita12/CI-6-Air-Role-Fighter-Jet

 

okay my 1st Supermaneuverable Jet evah!

[l0kki]

https://kerbalx.com/l0kki/WunderWaffle-III-Ausf-I

i dont even care about making a proper kerbalx page anymore

[Guest]

When will my f-38 superbullet compete?!?!?

On 12/15/2017 at 8:46 PM, exbyde said:

@Earthlinger @53miner53 @NotAnAimbot @[INDO]dimas_1502 @HeroBrian_333 @MiffedStarfish @MrChumley @SuicidalInsanity @Joseph Kerman  @drtricky @Thor Wotansen and anyone else i may have forgotten who has submitted a design:

 

I want to do a special air battle for Christmas. IF anyone has a design for a reindeer and/or sleigh armed with missiles (this is unlimited class, have fun), i'd love to do a special roster fight of all the roster planes against santa and his reindeer. These do not necessarily have to follow rules, but shouldn't be made in such a way to be super op.

This would not affect the roster in any way but would  be for fun.

You forgot me!

[Piatzin]

Could we all just have some patience please? If you're really desperate to see a match, then host one yourself until the official one comes along.

We all have lives. Go do something in yours.

[exbyde]

On 12/3/2017 at 11:18 PM, exbyde said:

@dundun93 I am disqualifying your aircraft due to it not being a fighter. In 3 fights with the F3, 1v1, the aircraft ran over 10km away from the opposing aircraft. In one case it ran at full afterburners in a straight line until it ran out of fuel. In a second case, after making a single strafing pass from 2km, the aircraft streaked up to 15km altitude and stayed there until the f3 caught up and gunned it down. While your strategy of a high-speed aircraft with guns has worked in the past, specifically with the Sanngrior, successful aircraft also added an element of extreme maneuverability and used its speed to close the radar gap before dogfighting. Your aircraft does not show this capability, and with the control surfaces you have selected, the ones with the smallest throws in the game, it is unlikely this design has such capacity. If you feel like re-submitting your design, i'd be happy to test it again, but for now, your aircraft does not perform as a fighter.

 

13 minutes ago, dundun93 said:

When will my f-38 superbullet compete?!?!?

You forgot me!

nope, i didn't forget you.

11 minutes ago, Earthlinger said:

Could we all just have some patience please? If you're really desperate to see a match, then host one yourself until the official one comes along.

We all have lives. Go do something in yours.

i appreciate your concern, earthlinger, i'm catching up on cleaning from exams and graduation last night, so expect more fights later tonight.

Edited December 17, 2017 by exbyde

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, exbyde said:

 

nope, i didn't forget you.

i appreciate your concern, earthlinger, i'm catching up on cleaning from exams and graduation last night, so expect more fights later tonight.

Ahh man!

[exbyde]

Just now, dundun93 said:

Ahh man!

its a fighter competition. flying wings are perfectly valid (see the Dorito, my mini val, and the f3), but you need to actually be able to fight.

[Piatzin]

2 minutes ago, exbyde said:

its a fighter competition. flying wings are perfectly valid (see the Dorito, my mini val, and the f3), but you need to actually be able to fight.

Is armor allowed....?

[exbyde]

2 hours ago, Earthlinger said:

Is armor allowed....?

For the moment, lets say yes...if it proves too op, it may be removed. @HeroBrian_333

Edited December 17, 2017 by exbyde

[exbyde]

Actually @Earthlinger if you have the time, i'd like you to make a version of your aircraft with and without armor for testing, just to see how considerable the difference is. I have no experience with BD Armor and i'd hate to have another turret debacle

[exbyde]

Alright, and for our first battle of the night, we have our new #5, the Bryntroll, up against the Atmotoaster MK2 by @MrChumley. Essentially fixing the Atmotoaster's weak armament by radial mounting a half dozen additional M2 Brownings, the Atmotoaster hasn't seen much of a change beyond obsurd firepower. But is it enough to compete against the original #1 roster aircraft?

Unfortunately not, as the Bryntroll whomps the Atmotoaster.

[exbyde]

For battle number two, we have the Bryntroll taking on an interesting craft, @Joseph Kerman's X-44. This aircraft has been long delayed over issues with Infernal Robotics, but its full-blooded IR version features a two-configuration wing, making it a fast rear-swept canard, and an agile FSW. So who will win the day, the time tested, high-delta canard Bryntroll, or the X-44?

In a staggering 3 battles, the flaws in the X-44 come to light like a laser pointer at a movie theater. The X-44, in either mode, is not terribly maneuverable, and requires a lot of space to turn. This seems to be due to its extremely noseheavy CG, roughly 50% of the wing width back from the CG on the forward swept version, and only more pronounced on the rearward swept version. Now this wouldn't be the biggest issue if it was a heavy missile fighter, like the Fighter 3, but no, it is the opposite. While it is heavy at nearly 8 tons per panther engine, its missile armament is woefully inadequate for an aircraft of this type, with just four AIM-9s and no radar guided munitions. Worse, the X-44 has zero countermeasures, no flares, no chaff, no ECM, and no maneuverability, meaning AIM-120s launched from the Bryntrolls had around a 100% hitrate. Three rounds were run, and in the first two, six missile kills, the Bryntrolls did not get close enough for guns until after the aircraft were in bits. The third round ,where the forward swept version was debuted, two of the three X-44s were destroyed by missile hits.

So, in conclusion, the x-44 was:
-too heavy at nearly 16 tons
-too unmaneuverable
-underwhelmingly armed for its weight class
-underpowered
-unable to protect itself from missiles (seriously, chaff and flares work miracles)

Because of this, enemy aircraft were able to get the X-44 on the defensive almost as soon as a radar lock was obtained, and knock them out of the air with their first missiles.
 

@HeroBrian_333 @Eidahlileither i need someone to test my Mini Val officially, or i will need to before i can continue combat testing.

Edited December 18, 2017 by exbyde

[exbyde]

Actually, since the show must go on (or several people will show up at my house asking when i'll be testing their plane), i'm going to post my testing. If someone wants to verify/scrutinize/redo the results, feel free. Will all be spoilered since there are 13 fights

Mini val vs Bryntroll

Spoiler

The primary goal of the mini Val is to rout enemy aircraft with copious amounts of missiles, then gun them down. With the Bryntroll, this succeeded

Mini Val vs Sanngrior

Spoiler

The Sanngrior was a bit harder to lock onto with the Val's all-AIM-120 armament, due to its size, but didn't stop the Val's missiles from putting the Sanns on the defensive and cleaning house with guns. Note in the second battle, friendly fire with gunfire is a very real possibility on these aircraft. The wings are technically attached to the cockpit instead of the tail connector due to wing offset issues

Mini Val vs ReSoup

Spoiler

Resoup was one of the few planes with a higher T/W than the Mini Val, due to a high engine count and lightweight airframe. However, it did make for a sizeable radar target...Biggest issue was chasing down the ReSoups due to their high T/W, especially after losing a wing

Mini Val vs Novi

Spoiler

The Novi should probably have made the #1 spot...If it werent for its all-infrared armament and shooting down friendlies, it probably would have. The Novi gives the Val its first real challenge, as the infrared AIM-9s can lock onto the Val's three Panther engines well before the Val's AIM-120s can make the Novi's slender airframe. Battles here were pretty close.

Mini Val vs Dorito

Spoiler

The dorito was a formitable foe, but the val won 3-1. Why four battles, you might ask? because the Doritos lost a wingman first round due to a suicide missile. After that, the Val won a round, then the Dorito, then the Val. The missile component was very critical in the Val's strategy, essentially locking 9 missiles on the lead aircraft, routing the group and almost always claiming a kill. When it couldn't claim a kill, the vals were put in a severe disadvantage

Again, if anyone wishes to challenge the results, retest on their own system, feel free to do so. This is more to keep anyone beyond the val from waiting for testing. If the results are good, then the roster currently stands as:

Mini val @exbyde

Dorito @drtricky

Novi @NotAnAimbot

Resoup @MrChumley

Sanngrior @Thor Wotansen

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by exbyde

[exbyde]

Alright, and for our next battle, we have the Sanngrior going up against @Earthlinger's Lancer ASF, an evolution of a previous design with overlapped airfoils and a superior armament. Will it beat out the smaller Sanngrior or fall to its guns?

Overall, the Lancer's a pretty good aircraft, but it's just not enough to keep up in the rapidly changing landscape of the roster.

[exbyde]

And for our next test, we have the Sanngrior, taking on what is known as "the single dankest plane in existence", @Abraxis's DN-59y. Strangely, the aircraft seems to start off with gear up, but the forward swept wing with undercamber, tied in with extra horsepower from three panther engines, means its got a good shot at living up to its dankness. 

Indeed the DN-59 is pretty dank, wiping the floor with the Sanngrior to claim its spot on the roster at #5. Nice one abraxis

[exbyde]

Up next, we have @Abraxis DN-59 facing off against RESoup, a very similar plane to the Dn, sans perhaps the manned portion and wing format.  So will it retain its #4 position, or will the ReSoup drop back to number 5?

 

In a pair of battles, one of which dipping close to the KSC, the DN-59 dominates the ReSoup, showing off its dankness yet again and claiming the No. 4 spot

For the next battle, we have the DN-59y up against the Novi. The Novi is a notoriously tough aircraft to face, using every bit of its single engine performance. And unfortunately this match was no exception

This time, the Dn-59s hit the Novis like a brick wall. Their low radar signature meant the Dn's never got the upper hand, and the Novis quickly swatted the opposing drones from the sky. So as it stands, the ReSoup will be our new #5 aircraft, and the DN will retain its #4 spot.

[Abraxis]

rip goddamit sidewinders 

You know where I can get the craft file of the mini val plane to test mine against?

Edited December 18, 2017 by Abraxis

[exbyde]

5 hours ago, Abraxis said:

rip goddamit sidewinders 

You know where I can get the craft file of the mini val plane to test mine against?

Yeah, here you go: https://kerbalx.com/ExByDe/Mini-Val. And don't feel too bad, the Novi is notanaimbot's thesis on single engine fighter superiority, and he's not a slouch on design. He'd probably be in the #2 spot (#1 before the mini val) if his sidewinders didn't have a habit of friendly fire.

Edited December 18, 2017 by exbyde

[Mukita12]

how's my CI-6 doing?

[exbyde]

10 minutes ago, Mukita12 said:

how's my CI-6 doing?

New rule, your submission(s) get delayed 24hrs each time you ask how their testing is going. Goes for everyone, not just you. Rule applies if and only if the last aircraft to be tested was before yours in submission queue. Yours is next in line for testing, so its not been tested yet.

Edited December 18, 2017 by exbyde

[Mukita12]

3 minutes ago, exbyde said:

New rule, your submission(s) get delayed 24hrs each time you ask how their testing is going. Goes for everyone, not just you. Yours is next in line for testing, so its not been tested yet.

so 24Hdelay eh?? Fair enough

and yes @exbyde you don't need to time to post this

[exbyde]

2 minutes ago, Mukita12 said:

so 24Hdelay eh?? Fair enough

and yes @exbyde you don't need to time to post this

Yours will be tested in a bit, i'm not going to announce and enforce a rule in the same stroke. But you're not the only person who has been asking, and considering the size of the queue as compared to historic sizes (like before i got here) its kind of annoying.

[Piatzin]

Heh heh heh....my new plane is new and improved!

One part less, faster speed and higher TWR, as well as better maneuverability (I think)

Sneak peek (this one is outfitted for ground-attack, but only the weaponry is different from the air-to-air version. The structure is identical)

https://kerbalx.com/Earthlinger/Lancer-Strafe

[exbyde]

Alright, now it's time for @Mukita12's CI-6, a supermaneuverable twin-engine fighter going up against the Sanngrior. So who will reign supreme?

Unfortunately for the CI-6, the "supermaneuverability" is really just a case of bad CG. The CIs couldn't even get out to a 15km distance at first as they were more likely to flip or hover than to actually fly a straight line. Because of this, the first fight was started at 13km, and the second had the CI-6's fuel cut back to just 200 units an engine to move the cg and reduce weight. In the first fight, rather than dodging missiles, the CIs bled off all their airspeed and got way too slow to dodge missiles in the process, dooming them. The second wasn't much better.  The CIs managed a single kill, but overall were whipped by the Sanngriors.

Edited December 18, 2017 by exbyde