[WIP] Infernal Robotics - Next

[Chase842]

A few questions...

 

- Is using the (now unavailable) KJR essential to make the mod work properly? Especially if I am using a non-modified version of KJR?

- Can it work, and work well, without a modified KJR?

- Is it not a violation of the license to post the changes you made, so we can manually add them, and recompile the .DLL? That way we can still have it?

[gdaman05]

Is this still compatible with 1.4.4?

[OctaviusGaius]

I never used IR I'm waiting for it to get out of beta, but badly want hinges in ksp. To whoever is maintaining this mod good luck with the project, I cant wait for it to be released.

[Lookerksy]

Add some new thing in Action Groups?

In general, if I press GroupAction "Move +" for two times, the second "Move +" will cancel the first one. So the second operation means "Stop".
But it 's so easy to lead to a misoperation.
In order to let IR operation be clear,  could you add a new Group Action "Stop Move" to all robotic part?

Thanks.

I find 2 problem about IR_v3.0.0_beta3_p4_for_1.3.1.
The first problem is about all Robotic part.
The Second one is about Rotatron Robotic part.

1st problem: (I test with Part "Joint Plvotron - Basic")
[Step1] Strat to trun left the IR part.
[Step2] Start trun right the IR part when rotating.
The result: It moved to right limit suddenly.
(The button "MoveToCenter" has the similar behavior.)

2nd problem: (I test with Part "Rotatron - Basic")
[Step1] Start to trun left the IR part.
[Step2] Start to I trun right the IR part when rotating.
The result: The IR part stopped forever. And it won't execute any new order.
(The button "MoveToCenter" has the similar behavior. Somtimes the game will even crash.)

[Dunbaratu]

@Lookerksy informed me that this no longer works with kOS.  (kOS has some support for other mods where it looks for the existence of their Assemblies and if found it adds some additional hooks into their API's.  This system was last updated before this new infernal robotics "next" project was started.)

I noticed the beta of this mod's DLL is called "InfernalRobotics_v3.dll" rather than the old name "InfernalRobotics.dll".  My question is this: is that "_v3" at the end going to be the new official name of the Assembly going forward or is that just a temporary thing while it's still in beta and it will go back to the old name later on upon full release?

If there's been a major overhaul to everything in the IR API I may need to inspect the code in kOS that speaks to IR and see if anything needs changing.  I didn't write that code but it's sort of fallen on me to maintain all the kOS code so I'm often having to delve into things I didn't write, like this.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Steven Mading

[kcs123]

13 hours ago, Steven Mading said:

I noticed the beta of this mod's DLL is called "InfernalRobotics_v3.dll" rather than the old name "InfernalRobotics.dll".  My question is this: is that "_v3" at the end going to be the new official name of the Assembly going forward or is that just a temporary thing while it's still in beta and it will go back to the old name later on upon full release? 

Hate to speak for others, @Rudolf Meier is one to confirm for sure on this subject, but since he is busy and I have followed  development from begining, I will try to answer some of questions. "*_v3" should remain for IR next. It is chosen like that, so you can have (in theory) old version of IR plugin that work in a way like it worked before, and new version of IR next plugin that works in similar, but internaly in complete different way. Don't know if it will be possible to work at the exact same time, old and new version of assembly, but you could choose to have one or other for crafts created with old version and such.

Now, it is not only "_v3" in assembly name, there is also changes in part module names too. That is most probably reason why kOS no longer "see" IR parts. Example:

    // --- Robotics Parameters ---
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleIRServo_v3
		servoName = Extendatron - Basic

    // the rest of config is cut off
	}

It will be remain like that even after beta, for sure, though there is still some stuff on "to do" list for Rudolf to iron out before full release. There is still some bugs involved with KJR when IR parts don't move while it should and probably some optimizations regarding joint strength, part mass and such that is more like polishing everything once all system work as intended.

While there is major overhaul of code internaly, I don't think that there is major changes in API calls, though some pieces of codes in IR next was removed completely, can't tell if exact API needed for kOS still exist in IR assembly, I haven't looked in all of IR code fore that. Also, can't tell if there is need to make changes trough IR assembly or trough kOS side, to make things work again.

[jestermaximus]

Hello, I've read through most of this tread and I think I understand whats going on broadly, but wanted to double check that the modified version of KJR that Rudolf has talked about in the original post isn't available (Github says it doesn't exist). As a work around I tried installing this version of KJR from Linuxgurugamer along with IR Next. However, I don't think it's working. My VTOL aircraft engines start bouncing around when i throttle them all the way up (they're attached to the body with rotatrons).

[DarkNounours]

On 7/26/2018 at 4:20 AM, gdaman05 said:

Is this still compatible with 1.4.4?

Hello gdman05 and hello dear community!

As I was interested in a few parts provided by this mod regarding rotating parts for VTOL capabilities, I installed the mod a couple of days ago upon a 1.4.4 KSP release from the download link provided in the first message of this thread. It seems to mostly work but I had a few setbacks including an especially annoying one.

My project in KSP is to set up a medium large ship which has enough dV to go almost anywhere, then can land, refuel and take off to go elsewhere.

As you can see having engine at the bottom of the vessel plus another ones giving enough thrust to reach orbit is not optimized, when we talk about 4 tons per engine we can easily see there is some margin for improvement here.

The idea is to put every KS25 on rotating parts which could move from vertical to horizontal position. Usual VTOL stuff, though.

I've tested so far 3 parts which I found to be appropriate to perform a 90° rotation to engines.

IR Rotatron (left)- IR Rotatron Mk2 (middle) - VTOL Rotor Mk1 (right)

The main flaw I discovered is as soon as the IR Rotatron Mk2 is put on your craft, you cannot access it to move it, rotate it of simply remove it. Selection is not possible. Too bad because I love the design and had a good feeling regarding its robustness.

I also discovered a bug regarding the mirror symmetry which is actually not a mirror.

I made a few tests with the smaller one as well as the VTOL one and rejected the IR Rotatron (small) because the part is to week to bear contraints with the huge amount of thrust provided by the KS25 engine. So I design a prototype with the VTOL engine to know whether it was maneuverable or not. And well, it is. You have to learn a bit how to use the craft but it flies.

 

 

So I decided to make a step forward VTOL capabilities to my interplanetary vessel to equip it with rotating parts. Things started to go south here.

In the SPH/VAB every rotor seems to behave as expected.

 

But then in the airfield the 2 rear rotors won't move.

I don't really understand what is going on here. It had worked but it does not anymore. I have no autostrut or rigid option on the rotor parts nor the rear KS25. I have not locked the rotation. I had reworked the craft several times, eventually the bug happens again on a different VTOL part.

I would love to help in solving this issue

 

 

Edited August 17, 2018 by DarkNounours

[kcs123]

22 hours ago, jestermaximus said:

Hello, I've read through most of this tread and I think I understand whats going on broadly, but wanted to double check that the modified version of KJR that Rudolf has talked about in the original post isn't available (Github says it doesn't exist). As a work around I tried installing this version of KJR from Linuxgurugamer along with IR Next. However, I don't think it's working. My VTOL aircraft engines start bouncing around when i throttle them all the way up (they're attached to the body with rotatrons). 

I didn't looked into linuxgamer code, so take following with a grain of salt. Linuxgamer have forked KJR code from ferram (first author of KJR mod) and seems that forked version does not contain new code provided by Rudolf, or at least not all of it. In case of old KJR code, it is possible that you need to edit XML config file, to put IR next module in it, so KJR know what parts need to ignore.

Forked version from Rudolf contains additional code that allow IR plugin to comunicate with KJR and allow or forbid KJR to put autostruts on IR or other parts. Even with latest one, though there is still some bug involved that prohibit movement of IR parts on some crafts. Unfortunately, due to licencing issues, debug version of KJR that allow to visualize autostruts is no longer available, so it is hard to say what exactly is going on.

It is known issue and it is being worked on, just be patient about it, moders work on this on their limited free time.

[jestermaximus]

Thanks for the explanation @kcs123. I'll move on to other projects and wait for an IR Next update with bated breath! 

[The Minmus Derp]

YA GOT KOMPETITION! (AnimatedAttachment by @Katten)

[Katten]

11 hours ago, The Minmus Derp said:

YA GOT KOMPETITION! (AnimatedAttachment by @Katten)

Hehe, thanks, but it doesn't allow any control of sequences etc so I guess they have a bit of different niches

[IMrChrisI]

Hello again. Somebody found addon for simple wheels without any suspension? Need it for my vechicles . 

[brumby]

On 8/15/2018 at 9:06 PM, DarkNounours said:

I don't really understand what is going on here. It had worked but it does not anymore. I have no autostrut or rigid option on the rotor parts nor the rear KS25. I have not locked the rotation. I had reworked the craft several times, eventually the bug happens again on a different VTOL part.

Hi mate. Sometimes symmetry (either sort) breaks robotics parts being able to move.  Try placing the moving parts down with no symmetry. Your test craft looks rather sturdy! Everything is quite wobbly for me in the current version. you can autostrut the moving part to root, but don't strut anything after the moving part. I hope it pays off! I made a similar craft a while back with near future and OPT parts. had a great time making a replica of 'Serenity' that topped out at 400 parts.

Edited August 28, 2018 by sumghai
Fixed quote and response

[eagle92lightning]

I really need this for a new project. Please tell me if this works with 1.4 at all!?

[linuxgurugamer]

On 8/15/2018 at 11:22 AM, kcs123 said:

I didn't looked into linuxgamer code, so take following with a grain of salt. Linuxgamer have forked KJR code from ferram (first author of KJR mod) and seems that forked version does not contain new code provided by Rudolf, or at least not all of it. In case of old KJR code, it is possible that you need to edit XML config file, to put IR next module in it, so KJR know what parts need to ignore.

My fork includes the code as provided by Rudolf to @ferram4 in a PR. 

It does, however, include what's needed to ignore the IR stuff

On 8/15/2018 at 11:22 AM, kcs123 said:

Forked version from Rudolf contains additional code that allow IR plugin to comunicate with KJR and allow or forbid KJR to put autostruts on IR or other parts. Even with latest one, though there is still some bug involved that prohibit movement of IR parts on some crafts. Unfortunately, due to licencing issues, debug version of KJR that allow to visualize autostruts is no longer available, so it is hard to say what exactly is going on.

It's a quirk of the license.  Rudolf did not provide any source, which was the problem.  I've decompiled it, and have it fully working, but cannot release it since his code wasn't licensed, even though the original  mod IS licensed under the GPL.  It's an odd situation, and I had to ask the moderators for advice about it.  I've asked @Rudolf Meier to make the source available under the GPL, but he is ignoring all requests.  Which is a real shame, because it works very well once a couple of bugs were fixed

[kcs123]

18 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

t's a quirk of the license.  Rudolf did not provide any source, which was the problem.

Yes, I know that there was some small drama about it, but don't know all of details. Thanks for clarificatrion, @linuxgurugamer. As said, I was not unsure what piece of code was merged and what not. My best guess is that is main issue is lack of free time for further development, issue could be on either, IR plugin code or KJR piece of code, have to be patient about it and wait for response.

Can't blaim anyone for it, heck, I don't even have enough time to play game properly. Attempting to lurk forums, regardless, to help where I can, in hope that my own free time will be improved once again too.

[henr1k]

First of all: Thank you for this mod - it's awesome!

Now, I understand that this (rewritten) mod is in its very early stages, so if what I am trying to achieve is just not possible at the moment, I fully understand.

In short: I am trying to attach 'open power hinge' to two structural panels (I have tried both the stock panels and the ones that come with this mod) without success. I am trying to have the hinge move one of the structural panels up by 90 degrees and back to 180 degrees (flat). Like so: https://imgur.com/a/HKqIQII

For some reason the hinge does not have any notes so that it can attach.

Does anyone know what I am doing wrong?

What I am trying to do can be seen in the following video on YouTube, which is a self building base in a single launch:

I would like to build something similar.

I tried to load the craft file to see how the creator managed to do this but unfortunately, the video is fairly old and the part names have all changed not letting me load the craft file.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Thank you!

 

[Nuke]

i made a helicopter which works like a real one. you got a swashplate and collective control. monoprop engines to spin up the blades. a big rcs thruster where the tail rotor would normally go. doxking washers support both the main rotor and swashplate (to transfer cyclic control to the blades), the linkages use an additional 2 washers each (x6) and required the use of docking ports to connect them. i kind of wish you could use struts as linkages but that only taunts the kraken. unfortunately its not working very well and some optimization needs to be done, but i was hoping to inspire others. i kind of wish i could map a joystick to the servo set points so that its somewhat easier to control. 

Edited September 1, 2018 by Nuke

[eberkain]

The mod has been working fine, but then I run into this.  Any ideas?  I've got no autostruts on the craft.  I have LGG's KJR installed.   Just a glitch with this one craft maybe?  The parts are all still connected, but the extenders will not retract anymore. 

[Nuke]

i got my helicopter to lift off. i think the problem were my glider wings which havent been updated in a really long time. i used a segmented rotor blade and got a lot more lift out of it. control is still rather difficult. you cant control the cyclic fast enough to compensate for any rotation near the ground (joystick mapped servos would really help here). there is no fly by wire here except in the yaw axis since thats just a tweakscaled rcs thruster (a proper variable pitch tail rotor is a possibility). helicopters get easier to fly once you get out of hover though. i also think i need custom mast, swashplate and linkage parts to simplify the mechanism. i can just model those after the parts on my rc heli.

i also found another issue after a rather successful and controllable flight at 0.5g, any manuver which changes the pitch of the blades (pretty much anything but yaw) will make the blades loose energy. i think real helicopters govern their throttle to maintain a constant rpm for consistent operation. being spun up by monoprop thrusters doesnt lend it to easy control, and its very hard to gauge the rpm of the blades to try and keep them constant. so far all ive been able to do is max out the engines and hope for the best. of course that also poses a problem as weird things start happening if the rotor spins too fast. like the lift force gets inverted which turns out causes a lot of dead kerbals. 

 

latest linkage configuration

Edited September 4, 2018 by Nuke

[Nuke]

this one flies like a dream. at least compared to the other helis i built. 

i also found out that so long as you put a 2 axis joint on each end you can use a strut to connect the linkages. 

[TeslaPenguin1]

How long 'till this is up on CKAN?

[Initial-Dee]

So i decided to give this mod a try today, as i'm wanting to work on an automated sample return system in RSS/RO. When testing the robotic arm on the runway, the hinges glitch out and refuse to move, as if they've been extremely autostrutted to the root part (which they haven't been, images are in album). I am wondering if there is anyone else that has had this issue, and has a possible fix.
https://imgur.com/a/lbA31ge

Output Log: https://file.io/t02qY5

Edited September 7, 2018 by Initial-Dee

[annihilator hd]

Is the improved KJR still around/needed? The link on the first page is 404'ing on me. Would love to be able to get an improved version of KJR if anyone's got it/if its still needed?