[1.12.1] JNSQ [0.10.0] [23 Sept 2021]

[sturmhauke]

NFX antennas are intended to fill some range gaps in the stock antennas, mostly at low- to mid-range. Basically, they aren't intended to outclass stock, just give more options. Nertea talks more about it here:

 

[PocketBrotector]

6 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Currently, no. None of us in Team Galileo use NFX or even play enough to care whether buffing reflector power is important. If there is demand, we'll make it so, but we may need whoever's asking about it to not be a basic player and to bring a good explanation (a sense of scale to roll with and write the buff upon) and not simply ask us to write the buff. While the idea of the reflector system is epic, we're not going to make the time to learn its mini-game. There is plenty else for us to walk knee-deep in to make JNSQ better and better by itself.

Reflector dishes add a flat range bonus to the feedable antenna when oriented correctly. Compared to the math involved in the stock antenna range calculations, it adds minimal complexity. As mentioned above, the dishes are balanced against stock, so the existing reasoning behind multiplying regular/feeder antennas would also apply to reflectors. 

There's a single (reflector) antenna in NFX that's more powerful than stock, and in JNSQ it would be analogous to the JX2 (i.e. provide communications from Nara).

I'd be happy to provide a pull request later if that would be useful. I think Breaking Ground has a couple of ground-science antennas that are also not currently covered by the existing patch, so I could look into those as well.

[DeadJohn]

@Rodger@JadeOfMaar@sturmhauke@PocketBrotector

The biggest antenna in JX2 with the JNSQ buff and the biggest dish in NFX without any buff already seem relatively balanced against each other:

• JX2 Large Deployable Antenna: rating 4T (after 4x multiplier), mass 3.5 tons. Combinable.
• NFX RFL-2000 Reflector Dish Array with one of the small 100% feeders: rating = 5T, mass 1.1 tons. Not combinable.

The JX2 weighs triple and has less range despite the JNSQ buff. Those weaknesses are offset by the JX2 being combinable and easier to incorporate into a stack of parts.

Applying the JNSQ buff to the NFX dish would yield a 20T power, 1.1 ton antenna. It would outperform a 28 ton stack of JX2's.

Edited March 4, 2020 by DeadJohn

[Marschig]

6 hours ago, DeadJohn said:

NFX RFL-2000 Reflector Dish Array with one of the small 100% feeders: rating = 5T, mass 1.1 tons. Not combinable.

You can use combinable antennas with reflectors. Point 10 Comm-16 on one RFL-2000 and get a 45T rating 1.15 tons antenna. Or 10 RA-2 and get a 25.35T 2.6 tons relay antenna.

NF Reflectors definitely don't need buffs.

 

[PocketBrotector]

8 hours ago, DeadJohn said:

Applying the JNSQ buff to the NFX dish would yield a 20T power, 1.1 ton antenna. It would outperform a 28 ton stack of JX2's.

I think it's useful to balance these things according to their role rather than comparing their stats in a vacuum (so to speak). The largest stock antenna (RA-100) is powerful enough to reach the second-most-distant planet (Hamek), which means that the next step is reaching the most distant planet (Nara); either the JX2 or the biggest NFX dish (with or without the x4 buff) is capable of that. Since there's nothing beyond Nara, the only practical difference between a 4T antenna and 20T antenna, or for that matter a hypothetical 100P antenna, would be signal strength at Nara. I'm unclear on whether signal strength actually matters; I've occasionally heard passing mention of a "science transmission boost" associated with high signal strength (or maybe a penalty associated with low signal strength?) but I don't know how, or whether, this works in practice.

2 hours ago, Marschig said:

You can use combinable antennas with reflectors. Point 10 Comm-16 on one RFL-2000 and get a 45T rating 1.15 tons antenna. Or 10 RA-2 and get a 25.35T 2.6 tons relay antenna.

NF Reflectors definitely don't need buffs.

I don't know if this is intentional or if NFX was designed/balanced with the notion of one feeder per reflector, but that's a question for the Near Future thread... I don't think it matters too much on the biggest reflector, for the reasons that I described above, but it might create some weird exploits with mid-range antenna balance.

Edited March 4, 2020 by PocketBrotector

[OhioBob]

2 hours ago, PocketBrotector said:

the next step is reaching the most distant planet (Nara); either the JX2 or the biggest NFX dish (with or without the x4 buff) is capable of that.

I don't know anything about the NFX, but the JX2 shouldn't be able to reach Nara without a boost of some type.  The JX2 with no boost has a maximum range of 500 Gm.  With either the 4x DSN boost or the 4x Range boost, but not both, the JX2's maximum range is extended to 1000 Gm.  And with the 4x boost to both DSN and Range, the JX2 can reach 2000 Gm.  Nara's closet distance to Kerbin is 1075 Gm, its mean distance is 1838 Gm, and its maximum distance is 2772 Gm.  (Those min-max distances are calculated through the first 500 years of the game.)

[PocketBrotector]

59 minutes ago, OhioBob said:

I don't know anything about the NFX, but the JX2 shouldn't be able to reach Nara without a boost of some type.  The JX2 with no boost has a maximum range of 500 Gm.  With either the 4x DSN boost or the 4x Range boost, but not both, the JX2's maximum range is extended to 1000 Gm.  And with the 4x boost to both DSN and Range, the JX2 can reach 2000 Gm.  Nara's closet distance to Kerbin is 1075 Gm, its mean distance is 1838 Gm, and its maximum distance is 2772 Gm.  (Those min-max distances are calculated through the first 500 years of the game.)

Sorry, I meant the JX2 with both JNSQ x4 multipliers would be able to reach Nara, as would the largest NFX reflector with or without the x4 patch. I was basing my statement on the AntennaRange image you uploaded to GitHub, but I didn't phrase it clearly.

Edited March 4, 2020 by PocketBrotector

[vanarok]

Is the delta map of this mod correct? I have 5000 delta (vacuum), but I miss this for the orbit of Kerbin 95km. 

p.s English is not my native language

[OhioBob]

1 hour ago, vanarok said:

Is the delta map of this mod correct? I have 5000 delta (vacuum), but I miss this for the orbit of Kerbin 95km. 

Orbit should definitely be possible with 5000 m/s, but it's going to depend on the design of the rocket.  I've had some early game rockets that have taken more than 5200 m/s, and some later bigger rockets that have taken less than 4800 m/s.  Also the trajectory flown can make a big difference.  A poorly flown rocket can probably add a couple hundred m/s.  All I can tell you is to keep practicing at it and try to get better with your designs and piloting.  You'll eventually be able to do it for less than 5000 m/s, but in the meantime you may just have to add extra.

[DeadJohn]

7 hours ago, vanarok said:

Is the delta map of this mod correct? I have 5000 delta (vacuum), but I miss this for the orbit of Kerbin 95km. 

p.s English is not my native language

What is your thrust-to-weight ratio (TWR) on the launchpad? If it's low you'll burn extra fuel early in your flight and need more DV.

 

[CraigCottingham]

What is the latitude and longitude of the default launch location on Kerbin in JNSQ?

[vanarok]

6 hours ago, DeadJohn said:

Каково ваше отношение тяги к весу ( TWR ) на панели запуска? Если он низкий, вы сожжете дополнительное топливо в начале полета и вам понадобится больше DV .

 

I keep my twr around 1.10-1.40

p.s If I use a delta from sea level then the calculations for the kerbin orbit are approximately correct.

Edited March 8, 2020 by vanarok

[DeadJohn]

6 hours ago, vanarok said:

I keep my twr around 1.10-1.40

p.s If I use a delta from sea level then the calculations for the kerbin orbit are approximately correct.

1.10 TWR is too low in the launchpad, in my opinion. My slowest commonly-used rocket lifter is 1.27 in my current JNSQ playthrough.

I like to target 1.50-1.60 when I'm building. That's just for the bottom stage at sea level. Upper stages in vacuum can have less TWR.

I generally do my DV and TWR checks by using the bottom stage sea level and the upper stage vacuum DV.

 

 

[PocketBrotector]

What sort of ascent profile do folks use with low-ish to moderate TWRs?

I rigged up a kOS script to change the pitch of my rocket according to the cube root of the atmospheric pressure, which seems to produce a nice gradual turn (45 degrees around 12-14km). But it has a hard time keeping the apoapsis ahead unless TWR is relatively high (>1.8 booster, >1.6 sustainer). And in JNSQ, a suboptimal ascent comes with a real risk of explosive overheating.

I had just presumed that higher TWR requirements came with the territory, but maybe I should be changing pitch based on speed rather than height/pressure?

Edited March 8, 2020 by PocketBrotector
Typo

[infinite_monkey]

13 hours ago, CraigCottingham said:

What is the latitude and longitude of the default launch location on Kerbin in JNSQ?

The KSC launch pad is at 0.000000, -91.783889

17 minutes ago, PocketBrotector said:

What sort of ascent profile do folks use with low-ish to moderate TWRs?

I rigged up a kOS script to change the pitch of my rocket according to the cube root of the atmospheric pressure, which seems to produce a nice gradual turn (45 degrees around 12-14km). But it has a hard time keeping the apoapsis ahead unless TWR is relatively high (>1.8 booster, >1.6 sustainer). And in JNSQ, a suboptimal ascent comes with a real risk of explosive overheating.

i has just presumed that higher TWR requirements came with the territory, but maybe I should be changing pitch based on speed rather than height/pressure?

Yeah I was fiddling around with that as well. I use mostly Tundra Exploration's rockets. Ascent paths are pretty different for Mothra (F1), Bagorah (F9 1.0) and Ghidorah (F9 1.1). My goal was a single burn instead of elevating the apoapsis to the target altitude and then do a circularization burn. So the tricky part is to not get too high but also not too low. Works fine for the Ghidorah, not so fine on Mothra (highly dependent on payload mass) and pretty fiery for the Bagorah. I think my next step is to do a numeric calculation, but I guess that would be pretty demanding on CPU cycles.

[CraigCottingham]

Wait, Lindor has a new moon named Huygen? When did that happen?

[Superfluous J]

10 hours ago, PocketBrotector said:

What sort of ascent profile do folks use with low-ish to moderate TWRs?

I rigged up a kOS script to change the pitch of my rocket according to the cube root of the atmospheric pressure, which seems to produce a nice gradual turn (45 degrees around 12-14km). But it has a hard time keeping the apoapsis ahead unless TWR is relatively high (>1.8 booster, >1.6 sustainer). And in JNSQ, a suboptimal ascent comes with a real risk of explosive overheating.

I had just presumed that higher TWR requirements came with the territory, but maybe I should be changing pitch based on speed rather than height/pressure?

I don't do KOS scripting or analysis of the air pressure or anything, but my launchers tend to be sub-1.5 on the pad (sometimes down to 1.2 or lower, with side solid boosters) and sub-1.0 during my mostly-horzontal orbital insertion phase, and what almost always works is to tip over 5-10 degrees once my time to Ap reaches 5-10 seconds, and then lock on prograde for the whole way up.

I find I'm usually pretty close to the 4900m/s of vacuum dV listed on the chart.

Edited March 9, 2020 by 5thHorseman

[Kwebib]

7 hours ago, CraigCottingham said:

Wait, Lindor has a new moon named Huygen? When did that happen?

0.8.6 Release

BTW, how are the maps coming for JNSQ?

[Death Engineering]

On 2/23/2020 at 1:41 AM, CraigCottingham said:

It's coming to Kerbal Maps (https://kerbal-maps.finitemonkeys.org/).

Looking forward to this!   

[JadeOfMaar]

18 hours ago, CraigCottingham said:

Wait, Lindor has a new moon named Huygen? When did that happen?

Part of the 0.8.6 release. I even made a banner image introducing it:

On 3/7/2020 at 2:34 PM, vanarok said:

Is the delta map of this mod correct? I have 5000 delta (vacuum), but I miss this for the orbit of Kerbin 95km. 

p.s English is not my native language

The numbers in a dV map are always estimates or average of repeat calculations. Always build your rocket to be capable of more than the map tells you.

[CraigCottingham]

15 hours ago, Kwebib said:

0.8.6 Release

BTW, how are the maps coming for JNSQ?

Maps for all celestial bodies in JNSQ (well, except for Huygen, apparently) have been extracted, and I'm updating the Kerbal Maps code to support multiple planet packs as free time allows.

[Commander Zoom]

Hoping that someone here can help me:

Per the OP, this package is not for everyone, or even most.  Installing all of it would definitely be too much for me.  However, I would very much like to have the absolutely amazing remade Jool (and only Jool) in my otherwise mostly-stock game.  Can someone guide me in identifying and extracting the essential components from the full download, and any dependencies (Scatterer, etc) to achieve that look?  I'm guessing it's not as simple as dropping jool.dds into my GameData folder...

Thanks in advance, if only for your time reading this request.

[FlyingGeeze]

@Galileo I'm playing career without Kerbnet as of yet. I know there is a biome map but it only has color differentials. There are biomes Like southern mountains, badlands but also some lakes and various seas have biomes.

Is there some map or chart which I can go by to know which biome is where? I really have no idea where to fly to if I were to find southern mountains.

Edited March 11, 2020 by FlyingGeeze

[OhioBob]

1 hour ago, FlyingGeeze said:

Is there some map or chart which I can go by to know which biome is where?

There is no currently existing map that has all the biomes identified in an easy to read format.  But all the data is available in the game if you want to create one for yourself.  The biome map can be found here, JNSQ/JNSQ_Textures/PluginData/Kerbin_biome_8K.png (beware that it is flipped horizontally).  And the biome names and colors can be found in JNSQ/JNSQ_Bodies/Kerbin.cfg (the colors are hexadecimal).

14 hours ago, Commander Zoom said:

Can someone guide me in identifying and extracting the essential components from the full download, and any dependencies (Scatterer, etc) to achieve that look?

It's very unlikely that's going to happen.

[Kwebib]

Could there be any issues with editing the minmus.cfg to put its orbit inside the Mun if I am not using Principia?

I am using my own customized contracts for exploring the celestial bodies, so I can swap the rewards for Minmus and Mun.