Kerbal Space Program 2 Release into Early Access Feb 24th

[razark]

3 hours ago, Fullmetal Analyst said:

i think they owe us for trolling us

Sometimes, people really need to think about this, and what it really means:

[intelliCom]

36 minutes ago, razark said:

Sometimes, people really need to think about this, and what it really means:

Damn, I knew pilot episode Spock wasn't quite there, but jesus those eyebrows.

[jebycheek]

5 hours ago, razark said:

Don't know, don't care, isn't relevant.

You realize that this is exactly how a business operates, right?

 

You've paid them nothing.  You're owed nothing.

If it's that upsetting, walk away.

Yeah, if anyone opposed, just shut them up or make them walk away.

[stephensmat]

On 10/27/2022 at 2:35 PM, Anth12 said:

It is no longer coming out on the PS4. Its coming out on the PS5

The higher power machine isn't the problem, for me. It's the fact that KSP1's Console Version was impossible to control. Unless it has full K+M support, PC is going to be the only practical option, at least for me.

[razark]

18 minutes ago, jebycheek said:

Yeah, if anyone opposed, just shut them up or make them walk away.

Nah, reasonable opposition is perfectly fine.
I have a prior post in this thread that isn't exactly supportive of the release plan.

Entitled whining can pound sand, though.

 

Have you ever seen the movie 12 Angry Men with Henry Fonda?

Great character study.  Whole thing takes place in a jury room, as they debate the fate of the defendant.  Touches on evidence, witnesses, prejudice, and people's desires vs. doing what's right.  Really good film.

 

Basically, what it boils down to is: go watch a good movie, rather than getting your knickers in a twist over a damn game you've not paid for, and won't even have a chance to play for almost half a year.

Edited October 29, 2022 by razark

[Deddly]

7 hours ago, Fullmetal Analyst said:

im not willing to help them for free and also pay them 50€ for it, what a joke

i doubt the moderators have to pay 50€ to help them with their forum xD

Well, if the early version of the game holds no value to you in itself, then yeah, that's a high price and I wouldn't recommend getting involved. 

Moderating the forums is a heck of a lot more work than filing a few bug reports and giving feedback, and we still have to buy the game ourselves and fund our own hardware purchases. The volunteer translators for localisation likely do even more. All I'm saying is that there are people willing to put their free time into something like this. In return, they get 10 funds off the full price of the same and get to try it early. For them, that's worth it, but as I say, it's not for everyone. 

[Bej Kerman]

On 10/26/2022 at 2:22 PM, Vl3d said:

Guys and girls, stop being cheap and buy / support this game starting February. We know the team is passionate about it, we know they have corporate support for the dream and the future. Pay the damn 50$ and show we want it too.

PS: I'm buying it also to become a client so that some people will stop saying I should have no expectations because the devs don't owe me anything.

People are literally dying because they need to pick between having heating in their homes and having food. Please take a few hours every year to clear your mind of KSP 2, and have some understanding for the kinds of people who are spending every waking minute of their lives trying to stay alive and won't be able to afford the time in the coming few years to complain about how metallic engines look

Edited October 29, 2022 by Bej Kerman

[Lisias]

16 hours ago, Fullmetal Analyst said:

i would gladly volunteer to help out, but im not willing to help them for free and also pay them 50€ for it, what a joke

I see your point and, in fact, community workforce is easily abused by Companies.

However… You may be missing a detail or two: not all volunteers are, in fact, doing "free work". Some are being paid by 3rd parties that want something fixed by personal reasons, others are doing it because they have stakes on the product and want to know early how things will work in order to be prepared when the thing finally hits the shelves.

It's up to you to decide if it worths your time or not - and I agree that for most people it will not.

 

9 hours ago, Deddly said:

Well, if the early version of the game holds no value to you in itself, then yeah, that's a high price and I wouldn't recommend getting involved. 

No doubt. But I had seen people getting burn by doing a hell of a effort on voluntary work just to see their efforts being internalised on a closed product - without any kind of counterpart for himself. In extreme cases, things gone to court.

So, it's not bad that such discussion happens now - so people willing to contribute knows exactly what are the terms and what to expect from their efforts.

You will not get paid. You will not have your name on the product. This is a commercial closed product, not a open source initiative. You will not be rewarded at all - save some gratitude and recognition on the Forum and the chance of getting what appears to be a 100 to 150USD product by 50.

If this is enough to you or you are getting something back by other means, then go for it. Otherwise, don't frustrate yourself with unfunded hopes of rewarding.

 

16 hours ago, Fullmetal Analyst said:

homeoffice exists

Easy. I was working homeoffice even before the pandemics, and 2020 was a dead year for me nevertheless. No new clients, the ones we had were operating at low speed (if operating at all), so some of them didn't even had how to pay us. I was fortunate enough to had savings (intended to do some work on the house - that are still to be done, by the way… Need new savings now!  ) and so I didn't had money problems, but most of the people I know had.

And I will not even talk about the mood and mental state at that time - this is not a group therapy session.

For all what matters, I had just removed 2020 from all criticise I had and have about KSP2 (and about almost anything else).

 

16 hours ago, Fullmetal Analyst said:

how many copies of ksp1 did they sell again?

That's an excellent point, by the way.

KSP2 is not an Indie game made by a bunch of code-monkeys (just to clarify - I was one too on my early years, this is just slang and a kidding on the company's name) bashing their SASes building an unexpectedly high profile product while learning the trade.

People love the underdogs. You should not expect the same level of good (read free) will from people when doing an AAA game - you are not an underdog anymore, people expect way more from you.

It's the reason Linux have a huge amount of free help around the World, while Microsoft have a way more limited voluntary workforce. Both ends up getting what they need in the end, but by different methods.

 

16 hours ago, Fullmetal Analyst said:

that would be a good thing if they let us play the game for free at least until the multiplayer is released, they would get tons of feedback and free help

That's another very interesting thought. The key reason I had bough KSP at first place was the Demo - I had already aware of the bugs that were plaguing the current releases due people on Youtube trying to do things and getting screwed, so my first impression wasn't the best.

But then I played the Demo and understood why a "so bugged game" were still making such a fuss - people were complaining about the bugs, but they were still playing the damn thing, and I understood why by "wasting" a month on it.

 

16 hours ago, Fullmetal Analyst said:

but i doubt alot of people are willing to pay 50€ to do QA for them

I think this may stick, but I agree that there are better ways to accomplish that.

 

16 hours ago, Fullmetal Analyst said:

all in all i dont understand what they think they are gaining from treating their community like this

I think we are not their Community. We are (still) the KSP1 Community. KSP1 is a product from a "competitor", money earned on KSP1 will not feed their pockets in the same way money earned on KSP2 will not feed KSP1's shop ones.

Corporation politics are a mess - some of them live an effective war between the Contractors internally.

I want to be wrong on this, however.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Lisias
damn³ grammars.

[jebycheek]

7 hours ago, razark said:

Nah, reasonable opposition is perfectly fine.
I have a prior post in this thread that isn't exactly supportive of the release plan.

Entitled whining can pound sand, though.

 

Have you ever seen the movie 12 Angry Men with Henry Fonda?

Great character study.  Whole thing takes place in a jury room, as they debate the fate of the defendant.  Touches on evidence, witnesses, prejudice, and people's desires vs. doing what's right.  Really good film.

 

Basically, what it boils down to is: go watch a good movie, rather than getting your knickers in a twist over a damn game you've not paid for, and won't even have a chance to play for almost half a year.

Don't know, don't care, isn't relevant.

I'd like to spend my money when I think it is  worthwhile, and I do not  enjoy any undercooked meal,especially the ones that didn't even follow the menu.

well, you do you,i respect that.

Edited October 29, 2022 by jebycheek

[Vl3d]

1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said:

People are literally dying because they need to pick between having heating in their homes and having food. Please take a few hours every year to clear your mind of KSP 2

Super off-topic but... do you think the corporation that sets the price cares about that?

[Bej Kerman]

13 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said:

People are literally dying because they need to pick between having heating in their homes and having food. Please take a few hours every year to clear your mind of KSP 2

Super off-topic but... do you think the corporation that sets the price cares about that?

I'm just flabbergasted by this response. 

Edited October 29, 2022 by Bej Kerman

[Lisias]

43 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

Super off-topic but... do you think the corporation that sets the price cares about that?

Well, they should if they expect to earn some money nowadays.

[Newgame space program]

On 10/28/2022 at 5:07 PM, Fullmetal Analyst said:

how long until we can see an actual full release of KSP2? 1 year? 2 years? 3 years?

this early access <insert generic swear word here> definitely isnt the release we were expecting for early 2023, there arent even any new features, its basically just a dumbed down version of ksp1 without science or anything... you are literally making people pay for alpha-testing your game instead of paying someone to test the game for you... thats not how it should work...

how long are you going to take to add each of the topics in the mind map? i mean after 6 years of development all that stuff should be about finished and just need some polishing or am i wrong?

can you please just stop trolling your fanbase and give us some facts?

 

I covered this on another thread with you but in short when you consider the ambition and promises of the game (And then compare it to the size of the team) you soon realize that 3 years is much, much less time then they need to develop it, [snip] I don't know if you are aware of this but the typical triple A game takes 3 to 5 years to develop, the inititial release date of Ksp2 was an unrealistic promise that anyone could see would be retconned a mile away and most likely made in the first place because of publisher interference.

Edited October 30, 2022 by Gargamel
Content snipped.

[regex]

6 hours ago, Lisias said:

Well, they should if they expect to earn some money nowadays.

Devs gotta eat too. Quite frankly a lot of games these days are underpriced. That can be made up with volume of sales natch but the team on Intercept is bigger than Squad by the looks of it, and they're in one of the more expensive places to live in the US.

(Squad also shot themselves in the foot with early pricing and the promise of free DLCs)

[Anth]

2 hours ago, regex said:

(Squad also shot themselves in the foot with early pricing and the promise of free DLCs)

I don't think the management (or whatever the company that owned Squad) expected to ever do DLCs.

T2 bought the KSP IP and they got the DLCs created, probably as a probe to see what the current KSP player base interest and numbers was.

[Kapitalizing Every Word]

On 10/26/2022 at 10:57 PM, BigStar Aerospace said:

50 is 1/10 of your income?

put like this I think I made a math error sorry

[Fullmetal Analyst]

18 hours ago, dogecoin investor said:

and slaying the kraken

thats quite a big claim xD

4 hours ago, Newgame space program said:

its really funny that your whining that the development has taken ''3 whole years!!1

the development of ksp2 has taken 6 years so far

4 hours ago, regex said:

Devs gotta eat too.

the devs are getting paid no matter what, T2 has enough money

[BigStar Aerospace]

I think that the only way I'll be able to get KSP 2 is if I invest in potato farming, then I can get three things; a potato farm, a PS5, and KSP 2. That's the only way I'll be able to afford it.

[Lisias]

5 hours ago, regex said:

Devs gotta eat too. Quite frankly a lot of games these days are underpriced. That can be made up with volume of sales natch but the team on Intercept is bigger than Squad by the looks of it, and they're in one of the more expensive places to live in the US.

It's not about how much you make by sell, but how much you make at the end of the month with the sum of all the sells.

I need to eat too, inflation here are about 80% since before the pandemics and yet I still earn the same I was earning before - and I don't dare to try to raise my fees, as I have notice of competitors fighting to avoid dropping prices (while firing workforce).

I don't see why Private Division would have an easier life than me (or anybody else), they are a business after all (as anybody else).

It's better to sell 1000 copies at 35USD than 100 at 50USD. Do you see my point?

(I'm not implying they should sell the Early Access at 35USD, that was just a number I pulled from my hat - what I think they should consider is a Demo release, teasing people to buy the early access — hey, this carrot and stick stunt worked on me, right? )

 

5 hours ago, regex said:

(Squad also shot themselves in the foot with early pricing and the promise of free DLCs)

They have more than one foot to shoot at. Missing that one is not the same than saving the other.

That said, I'm not disagreeing with you - we may have a small disagreement on how to accomplish it, but that's all.

 

32 minutes ago, Fullmetal Analyst said:

18 hours ago, dogecoin investor said:

and slaying the kraken

thats quite a big claim xD

Just smile and wave, the Sons of the Kraken are lurking, waiting for revenge!

Edited October 30, 2022 by Lisias
Gee… My grammars sucks...

[regex]

1 hour ago, Lisias said:

It's better to sell 1000 copies at 35USD than 100 at 50USD. Do you see my point?

It's better to sell 500,000 copies at $50 USD and then 500,000 copies at $60 USD than 1,500,000 copies at $35 USD. And they'll probably hit those numbers; KSP1 sold 4 million copies, at least.

Edited October 30, 2022 by regex

[Stephensan]

57 minutes ago, regex said:

It's better to sell 500,000 copies at $50 USD and then 500,000 copies at $60 USD than 1,000,000 copies at $35 USD. And they'll probably hit those numbers; KSP1 sold 4 million copies, at least.

i wonder how well the player retention will be when its fully released with multiplayer etc.

[Nazalassa]

I wonder how many people will just say, "nah KSP2 is just like ksp1 + Parallax 2.0 + DMP + some other mods, I'll just do that rather than spend $50"

[The Aziz]

There already are people saying this. There are people saying that these mods look better than KSP2. There are people who say that this:

Even with tons of mods is somehow still better than anything KSP2 has to offer (meanwhile I hadn't been more disappointed since I saw Dres canyon with my own eyes for the first time not long ago).

I kinda want to do myself a guilty pleasure of stepping into steam forums to read what True Players™ have to say.

[Anth]

6 minutes ago, Nazalassa said:

I wonder how many people will just say, "nah KSP2 is just like ksp1 + Parallax 2.0 + DMP + some other mods, I'll just do that rather than spend $50"

KSP1 is a mess. It has the following issues at the minimum

1. Badly Optimized (look at large explosions. the game pausing to consider what just happened before explosions happen)
2. Kraken Strikes which is when the game blows up a craft in weird ways for no reason (as well as other spectacular glitches)
3. A really REALLY bad memory leak that gets worse and worse each time the game loads the known universe which happens a lot like the following: when launching, when loading a scene, when reverting to launch, when going to KSC screen etc etc etc.
4. Above memory leak makes the game take longer and longer to load the bigger the save file is
5. There's a  memory leak when more complicated crafts explode.
6. On undocking from a craft to launch straight up from the ground the game sometimes will stay in a landed state which really screws up the game
7. A lot of the free updates have bugs that were never fixed especially the maneuver mode function that is riddled with them that were never fixed (look at phase angle which never worked)
8. 1.12 introduced a friction problem with wheels and landing legs, so landing legs will slide when there's no obvious way to stop them.
9. I would have to go look at the bug tracker for others but there are LOTS of bugs in KSP1. TONS of them.

The main pressure on Intercept Games is for high quality. A relatively bug free KSP is what I care about and I think a lot of other people want the same thing.

For me the success of KSP2 depends on it being a high quality product with few bugs before anything else.

[Anth]

Lets see. What other bugs are still in KSP1 that makes KSP2 a better option:

• EVA construction problems when trying to move a wheel where the wheel will sink into the ground
• A Kerbal when using its parachute but is in a command chair will flip the craft around and around
• Rover fixing contracts with wheels tilted out in a way that they don't work at all (they need to be orientated up and down for them to work correctly)
• Some parts in symmetry not changing their settings together in scene when they should
• Intercepts changing when under timewarp
• Finishing a maneuver that doesn't actually end up in the same place as the maneuver node (like a course correction from solar orbit to a planetary encounter)
• Ground Anchor doesn't actually work.
• A crash to desktop when in an orbit outside the Jool planets (but still in Jool orbit)
• Losing intercepts with crafts when trying to rendezvous with a craft in solar orbit
• Losing intercepts with asteroids when trying to rendezvous
• Intercepts flickering all over the place or giving a false intercept all together
• Tutorial that doesn't work correctly after one of the engines was revamped
• Flags that aren't supposed to have colliders do have colliders
• A weird bug that causes parts to disappear in the editor (SPH/VAB)
• Permanently lowered performance after launching into space for the first time. (might apply to any planet but I noticed and retested it multiple times from Kerbin to Kerbin Orbit)
• Kerbals who go on EVA on the side of a capsule (or ladder) who are in contact with a part of the craft cause the craft to start spinning. (phantom force)
• Physwarp causes gravity to increase.
• Ore Drilling/Processing crafts exploding when they lose power while the craft is in the dark and loses electrical charge when using timewarp (due to a heat problem)
• Pistons losing EC will unlock even when they were supposed to lock at times and will just move freely even when EC is reestablished until they are forcefully adjusted
• As of 1.8 if KSP is a clean install there will Shadow banding across the ground (its really obvious when moving around the KSC in scene)
• The spherical tanks fuel vs the oscar tanks is wrong vs the volume
• Duplication bug with EVA construction containers
• Multiple Kerbals in a scene together will cause performance to tank.
• sometimes fuel transfer doesn't work (though it isn't quite as bad as it used to be)
• Robotic drift causing pristine part locations to change on timewarp and saving the game warping crafts (partial fix in 1.12.3 with locking)
• The MK2 lander can sometimes evaing the kerbal with the wrong hatch is blocked sending the kerbal flying into the air
• EVA construction with click through issues from one part to another

Edited October 30, 2022 by Anth12