Where's the scattering?

[Xelo]

47 minutes ago, K^2 said:

If your camera is on the ground, you absolutely can't. And that's the problem. If you're above the clouds, though, I would submit that nobody's going to notice the difference. So long as you still do cloud shadows for direct light, the lighting difference due to weather is going to be too subtle when viewed from above the cloud layers. There might be edge cases where you're not high above clouds and looking at the terrain below through a cloud break, but I don't think these are common enough and obvious enough to go for a far more expensive technique just to get these right.

Apologies, in your original comment, I misinterpreted it as you getting to ignore 'the ground' completely, as opposed to the cloud shadows on the ground which is probably what you meant. On that point I still stand by sampling the global cloud texture as the cost is small.  

 

47 minutes ago, K^2 said:

We only need the dynamic skybox for the first 10km. From there up, we no longer need to recompute it. It's literally always the same, and depends only on one angle, because there are no clouds anymore. We can bake all of the light info it into a 2D texture.

Im going to assume you are talking about the indirect lighting from the terrain onto the ship, otherwise known as 'planet shine' at high altitudes, in which yeah, but I wasn't arguing about that bit. I had even shoddily drawn said texture in my previous, previous comment!

 

50 minutes ago, K^2 said:

So how do you pick up the orange hue on one side of a mountain and gray on the other during sunset/sunrise? And how is it better than getting all of that and the correct cloud illumination when viewed from the ground? As far as I can tell, our approach above the clouds is identical, except I want to use look-up textures instead of doing ray casts. (Because I'm not sure why we're doing ray casts if we're ignoring clouds.)

(I assume we're ditching the light probes)
If you were talking about that level of terrain indirect lighting, where the orange glow of a mountain indirectly illuminates my craft, then I would be talking about cubemaps or raycasting. And I would then note that youve interpreted this whole debacle as me debating how to light the craft and its immediate surroundings and not the terrain as a whole, viewed from a distance. The latter of which wouldn't work with that approach, the mountain simply isnt there even 2km out, or even just behind the mountain you wouldn't have that glow in the cubemap, but you can still see those places. It wouldnt do to see the entire landscape flash with orange just because i happened to drive past a particularly bright rock in the sunset.

If you were talking about how the mountain itself is shaded, then would just cutting the scattering ray towards the sun when it hits terrain within the shadowmap suffice as a explanation? :p 
 

 

1 hour ago, K^2 said:

I have a feeling we're about to go to the Shadertoy round.

HAHA, if I have a free weekend you're on!
 

[Alexoff]

Hmm, no scattering in the new screenshots, no sun flares, no tessellation, no vegetation outside the space center. Was the game really going to be released in 2020 or did developing just start in 2020?

[KalleHeHa]

14 hours ago, Alexoff said:

Hmm, no scattering in the new screenshots, no sun flares, no tessellation, no vegetation outside the space center. Was the game really going to be released in 2020 or did developing just start in 2020?

where is that from?

 

[GoldForest]

3 minutes ago, KalleHeHa said:

where is that from?

 

The Intercept Game's discord. 

[mcwaffles2003]

15 hours ago, Alexoff said:

no vegetation outside the space center.

pretty sure the vegetation only appears in a certain radius around you

15 hours ago, Alexoff said:

Was the game really going to be released in 2020 or did developing just start in 2020?

Theory is that the games scope was greatly expanded upon seeing the reception from fans after their first launch trailer

[Alexoff]

22 minutes ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

pretty sure the vegetation only appears in a certain radius around you

Apparently a very small radius, which means that vegetation will appear before our eyes. The graphics we deserve.

26 minutes ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

Theory is that the games scope was greatly expanded upon seeing the reception from fans after their first launch trailer

What has been expanded? It seems to me only the empty faith of the fans in the developers, that somewhere far away they hid the game of their dreams, and they show us all the most miserable simply because you have to believe. But in practice, scattering from the prealpha was gone, all the details from KSP1 with slightly updated models, no one saw parachutes or IVA of spaceships. And it’s not even worth thinking about in what year we will get what we promised in 2019.

[mcwaffles2003]

1 hour ago, Alexoff said:

Apparently a very small radius, which means that vegetation will appear before our eyes. The graphics we deserve.

Yeah, pop in is a problem and I hope it gets better than it has been shown.

1 hour ago, Alexoff said:

What has been expanded? It seems to me only the empty faith of the fans in the developers, that somewhere far away they hid the game of their dreams, and they show us all the most miserable simply because you have to believe. But in practice, scattering from the prealpha was gone, all the details from KSP1 with slightly updated models, no one saw parachutes or IVA of spaceships. And it’s not even worth thinking about in what year we will get what we promised in 2019.

Well we weren't really given a lot of details of what the original scope was, hence :

1 hour ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

Theory is 

That said, I have no belief that KSP 2 is a perfect game. But are you actually suggesting parachutes won't exist here?

1 hour ago, Alexoff said:

no one saw parachutes or IVA of spaceships.

We haven't been shown how a building is placed when building colonies either, but is it reasonable to deduce that there is no colony creation system then? You do understand the devs have shown us like 0.1% of the game, right? They're not going to show us every bit and piece. If you're concerned, just wait a couple days after it launches to get it, or wait till full release. I'll just be happy to see a game running more efficiently with some graphics updates, other star systems, an increased part set, and multiplayer.

[Strawberry]

I won't be surprised if the scattering was toned down/removed for performance reasons. If its a stylistic thing to not have scattering on Kerbin we should be able to see it on Eve's surface then, which we shall see when EA gets released.

[TLTay]

Lack of scattering makes the grass look extremely shiny. Anyone else notice ultra reflective grass?

[Gargamel]

Conversation related to marketing should be taken here:

 

[Alexoff]

11 hours ago, K^2 said:

Totally just a guess, but I don't think KSP2 was supposed to be this big when it got handed to Star Theory.

But right now the game doesn't look big. For some reason, we are shown a completely bald Kerbin, Minmus without stones on the surface. It's hard to believe in a big game with such advertising. Do you have inside information or are you just hoping?

[Domonian]

 

There's some stuff, right? 

[Pthigrivi]

2 minutes ago, Domonian said:

 

There's some stuff, right? 

OooOooooh

[Vl3d]

You might appreciate this comparison image.

[GoldForest]

28 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

You might appreciate this comparison image.

Is that shot on the left KSP 1?

[t_v]

3 hours ago, GoldForest said:

Is that shot on the left KSP 1?

KSP 1 with EVE and Scatterer and stuff, yes. Honestly, aside from config stuff and the KSP 2 craft, it’s difficult to spot any differences. 

[GoldForest]

Just now, t_v said:

KSP 1 with EVE and Scatterer and stuff, yes. Honestly, aside from config stuff and the KSP 2 craft, it’s difficult to spot any differences. 

Honestly, KSP 1 + EVE and KSP 2 can't be compared. 

EVE goes for hyper realism, pushing the limit of what KSP can do. 

KSP 2 has an art style. 

Also, there is a slight difference. 

KSP 1 + EVE's clouds are 3D. Look at the clouds near the top of the shot. They have height to them. 

KSP 2's clouds just look 2D and flat in orbit. Again, look at the clouds near the top of the shot. No height. 2D overlay. 

[Missingno200]

2 hours ago, Alexoff said:

Should I? Nobody pays me for this, game development is not my profession. 

Yes, you should. Using "nobody pays me for this" is a jar filled crutch in this argument. If you are going to criticize them like this, then you should be ready to offer an analysis OR solutions to these problems too, and if you can't, then keep your fingers away from your keyboard and let someone else do it.

Just saying you don't like "X" means literally nothing if you aren't willing to try to identify the exact problem, or to offer potential solutions to resolve the problem. All you've done is waste everyone's time.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Missingno200
Added the OR and analysis.

[LHACK4142]

13 hours ago, Vl3d said:

You might appreciate this comparison image.

Because I'm tired of all these posts comparing modded KSP1 to KSP2, I made this little chart:

[airtrafficcontroller]

1 hour ago, LHACK4142 said:

Because I'm tired of all these posts comparing modded KSP1 to KSP2...

I can feel you man, every rpg game from the last decade was compared in vanilla state to some ultra moded Skyrim video.

 

For the topic question, my opinion is that the devs are using low graphic mode so we got mindblow when it's released.

[Jafergon]

I think the OP is a very valid question. It's not a matter of it's only a Beta and stuff will be added, it's more like. at some point in development atmospheric scattering was there and in more recent material it's gone. It could be the beta builds used for the latest batch of screenshots had it disabled. or they had to make the decision to remove it. I find strange that for EA sales they are not showing the best their engine can deliver at the moment, so I'm inclined to think that raleigh scatter and other features like rocks on planets have been tuned down or removed for performance. We will see in a few weeks. If KSP2 is as easy to mod as they say (I'm sure it will be the case, but still not so sure about graphic/engine related mods) then the amazing modding comunity will take over and bring it to 2023 standards like they have done with KSP1 (Thanks everyone involved in those mods, btw!!!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci7-5SsstFs

 

 

[Vl3d]

Where's the conversation about the KSP2 scatter? I'm wasting time reading personal comments..

[Bej Kerman]

On 1/29/2023 at 1:50 AM, LHACK4142 said:

If you ask me....

No "yes" boxes under modded KSP 1, great graphics and great gameplay is a massive stretch. Impressive, sure, but that doesn't mean it is necessarily good. Blackrack's clouds look nothing short of out of place, doesn't really help the already scattered look of KSP 1. As for great gameplay, nah. You're playing with a higgledy-piggledy of modules and elements made by modders who only balanced their creations with stock-KSP in mind. Trying to make a KSP modpack that approaches even half the scope of KSP 2 without it ending up as an incoherent mess of bits and bobs people made in varying amounts of time and with varying loadouts in mind is tricky, dare I say impossible. I don't want a massive toolbar full of tools, I want all my QOL improvements properly integrated into the game (another point for KSP 2 EA that KSP 1 modded doesn't get).

Add a column for "breaks your PC because you thought it was fine to play but you only had 30 gigs free on your disk and KSP's memory leak problem caused it to take every last byte on your disk". Yes for modded KSP 1, possible for stock KSP and no for KSP 2.

[mcwaffles2003]

29 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

Add a column for "breaks your PC because you thought it was fine to play but you only had 30 gigs free on your disk and KSP's memory leak problem caused it to take every last byte on your disk". Yes for modded KSP 1, possible for stock KSP and no for KSP 2.

Memory leaks dont affect HD space, maybe check (C:\Users\[your user name here]\AppData\Local\CKAN\downloads)

[Vanamonde]

All the stuff that was not about scattering has been removed. If you want to talk about other features of KSP2, please make threads for them. 

If you want to explain to others why you are more qualified than they are to make judgements about game quality, please put it on your job resumes, but it is off-topic here. All that stuff has been removed as well. 

Please stick to the subject of the thread, and don't make things personal.