Take Two Interactive (Rockstar, 2K, Private Division) canceling games, ending projects and laying off 5% of its workforce

[Minmus Taster]

Just now, Lisias said:

Interesting news.

Take-Two CEO says he's 'not trying to be cute or difficult' with vague answers about the fate of the Kerbal and OlliOlli studios, but is kind of being cute and difficult

Take-Two says it hasn't closed Intercept Games or Roll7, two studios it was reported to have closed, but won't elaborate.

https://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-industry/intercept-roll7-closures-update/

Well... Perhaps, just perhaps, the backslash had some influence on the matter.

[stephensmat]

Which means, once again, we're in limbo.

[Lisias]

2 minutes ago, stephensmat said:

Which means, once again, we're in limbo.

There're worst places to be.

[Minmus Taster]

7 minutes ago, stephensmat said:

Which means, once again, we're in limbo.

[stephensmat]

5 minutes ago, Lisias said:

There're worst places to be.

I know, it's just so agonizing to be where we're at, in regards to the game. At least, it is for me. Colonies was the main thing I bought the game for. New parts and better graphics were brought into KSP1 by modders. A Colony Editor, and Spacedock? That was what I really wanted from KSP2. Multiplayer never interested me. Interstellar would have been nice, but something of a pipe dream. Colonies were what I really wanted.

The only thing worse than having the game cancelled before we got there, would be to have the game cancelled when we were so freakin' close.

[herbal space program]

25 minutes ago, Lisias said:

Well... Perhaps, just perhaps, the backslash had some influence on the matter.

I happen to think, after playing at least a couple hundred hours of the latest release, that provided there is a significant amount of colonies content nearly ready, they will end up with a better bottom line trying to get that out in some form before closing up shop entirely. There is a lot of latent market out there waiting for a better reason to buy the game, and provided it runs OK I think a decently performing colonies release would be just that.

Edited May 17 by herbal space program

[TLTay]

Sounds like management wants to keep the product page up and just not have to talk about it again. 

It got full funding for as long as it was going to.  It just isn't worth it anymore compared to other places to put money. So unless the cost of carrying financing drops to nearly zero again, I'd say they've put their money where their mouth is by firing the developers. They just want it to stay on the books to pad the portfolio for investors.

 

[steveman0]

The more I think about it, the more I see it as the silence being the safest way to put the project into hibernation.  There is too much money on the table for them not to finish development and release as @K^2 has summarized nicely.  The financial situation combined with the apparent troubles in IG suggest they might take the combined opportunity to save money for the time being and return to the project with a refreshed team/studio at some undetermined point in the future.  It wouldn't do them any good to announce a cancellation if they aren't really planning to cancel it, and it doesn't do them any good to tell people that their EA game is going to be getting minimal support for the time being.  Better to just go silent and disappear for a bit. 

[Jacke]

6 hours ago, Lisias said:

Interesting news.

Take-Two CEO says he's 'not trying to be cute or difficult' with vague answers about the fate of the Kerbal and OlliOlli studios, but is kind of being cute and difficult

Take-Two says it hasn't closed Intercept Games or Roll7, two studios it was reported to have closed, but won't elaborate.

https://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-industry/intercept-roll7-closures-update/

Well... Perhaps, just perhaps, the backslash had some influence on the matter.

Welp, may not have shut them down.  But they've been gutted of staff, with just a few transferred to PD.  I would imagine both are hollow corporate entities waiting for such a time to be used again.  Maybe.

It appears that Take-Two does not want to make a specific comment on the status of these things, including KSP 2.

This may mean the worse case scenario of these forums being shut down may not happen.  Because having said one thing, doesn't want to say or indicate another.

Not a guarantee, but a hope, at least for the forums and our KSP community.

KSP 2...who knows.

[The Aziz]

26 minutes ago, Jacke said:

with just a few transferred to PD.

We don't know how many aside of the Creative Director.

[Xindar]

8 hours ago, Lisias said:

Interesting news.

Take-Two CEO says he's 'not trying to be cute or difficult' with vague answers about the fate of the Kerbal and OlliOlli studios, but is kind of being cute and difficult

Take-Two says it hasn't closed Intercept Games or Roll7, two studios it was reported to have closed, but won't elaborate.

https://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-industry/intercept-roll7-closures-update/

Well... Perhaps, just perhaps, the backslash had some influence on the matter.

As is mentioned in the article, They previously shut down 2K Marin without ever acknowledging it, so it may be the same fate for intercept games.

From Jason Schreier's tweet (while about Roll7 studio, it is to highlight my previous point)
 

Quote

Hey everyone, let’s play a game called What’s The Truth?

On the left, comments from Take-Two CEO Strauss Zelnick to IGN today.

On the right, part of a note sent to Roll7 employees that was obtained by Bloomberg earlier this month, shared now with the source’s permission.

[cocoscacao]

9 hours ago, stephensmat said:

The only thing worse than having the game cancelled before we got there, would be to have the game cancelled when we were so freakin' close.

Same. I'm hoping we will at least get a glimpse of those.

[BrobDingnag]

On 5/1/2024 at 3:58 PM, PDCWolf said:

If anything, that statements just compels me to say start handling your refunds through Steam support NOW

How do you imagine you're going to get a refund? You're not.

[PDCWolf]

4 hours ago, Xindar said:

As is mentioned in the article, They previously shut down 2K Marin without ever acknowledging it, so it may be the same fate for intercept games.

From Jason Schreier's tweet (while about Roll7 studio, it is to highlight my previous point)
 

Finally, some real sources baking up what's the most obvious thing but that somehow a lot of people want to look away from.

7 minutes ago, BrobDingnag said:

How do you imagine you're going to get a refund? You're not.

Depends on local laws and your capacity to deal with Steam Support instead of the automated method. If you're in the US yeah, say goodbye to those $50.

[sturmhauke]

4 hours ago, Xindar said:

As is mentioned in the article, They previously shut down 2K Marin without ever acknowledging it, so it may be the same fate for intercept games.

From Jason Schreier's tweet (while about Roll7 studio, it is to highlight my previous point)
 

I'm sad but not really surprised about KSP2's fate. TT has pulled shenanigans like this before. I was prepared for this possibility as soon as the acquisition was made public.

[Ker Ball One]

Since we're all dreaming big...

I'm now hoping that Bethesda games has bought the rights to Kerbal Space Program, and will integrate into Starfield!

They could introduce a new star system to visit and explorer their new Shattered Space DLC.

The Kerbol star system gets unlocked in NG+ as an alternate universe where physics is more realistic and ship design becomes more complicated.  The colony system is already built in.  The Grav Drive takes care of interstellar travel.  They'd have to overhaul a new ship building system.  And start from scratch with orbital mechanics.  Keep the starfield graphics.  There will have to be some way to get planets and moons moving in orbits.  Perhaps use the principia system. 

Can you just imagine going through the multiverse portal into NG+ and coming out in a new star system with moving planets and moons, and landing on a strange new world filled with little green people. 

[The Aziz]

Knowing Bethesda it would have more bugs than KSP1 and 2 combined.

[Infinite Aerospace]

15 hours ago, stephensmat said:

Which means, once again, we're in limbo.

That is exactly where we are, and have been from the beginning. All the definitive claims of the games demise is just as unsubstituted as the game is perfectly fine. We, as people on the outside looking in have no real idea frankly. We've never left limbo, we've just been sitting here watching our community slowly implode and crumble around us.

[Ker Ball One]

1 minute ago, Infinite Aerospace said:

All the definitive claims of the games demise is just as unsubstituted as the game is perfectly fine.

No.  There is much more evidence on one side here, it's not equal.  Anyone in limbo has put themselves there and only stays there because they're in stage 1 of grief.  Denial.

The game is abandoned.  Maybe not dead because of residual updates still in the pipeline, and any devs that might continue to work until next months layoff is official. 

The rug is pulled, we felt the floor give out from under us.  Don't believe the hopium that tells you your flying.  We should not expect evidence and acknowledgement from Nate or T2.  Their silence speaks loud enough.

[Scarecrow71]

33 minutes ago, Ker Ball One said:

Since we're all dreaming big...

I'm now hoping that Bethesda games has bought the rights to Kerbal Space Program, and will integrate into Starfield!

They could introduce a new star system to visit and explorer their new Shattered Space DLC.

The Kerbol star system gets unlocked in NG+ as an alternate universe where physics is more realistic and ship design becomes more complicated.  The colony system is already built in.  The Grav Drive takes care of interstellar travel.  They'd have to overhaul a new ship building system.  And start from scratch with orbital mechanics.  Keep the starfield graphics.  There will have to be some way to get planets and moons moving in orbits.  Perhaps use the principia system. 

Can you just imagine going through the multiverse portal into NG+ and coming out in a new star system with moving planets and moons, and landing on a strange new world filled with little green people. 

No.  I'm sure a lot of us aren't going to be interested in having to purchase another game, and then purchase DLC, just in the hopes we can unlock Kerbals.  Just...no.

19 minutes ago, Ker Ball One said:

No.  There is much more evidence on one side here, it's not equal.  Anyone in limbo has put themselves there and only stays there because they're in stage 1 of grief.  Denial.

The game is abandoned.  Maybe not dead because of residual updates still in the pipeline, and any devs that might continue to work until next months layoff is official. 

The rug is pulled, we felt the floor give out from under us.  Don't believe the hopium that tells you your flying.  We should not expect evidence and acknowledgement from Nate or T2.  Their silence speaks loud enough.

We don't know if the game is cancelled or not.  We haven't been told anything other than:

1. 70 people will lose their jobs.
2. The studio is being closed (as evidenced by the WARN notice).
3. The official X account indicates that the game will still be supported.

None of that says that the game is cancelled.  On the flip side, none of that says the game is continuing, either (apart from the "support" piece in the X post).  We seriously have no clue what is going to happen, and anybody who isn't affiliated with the company who says anything differently is merely speculating at this point.

[TLTay]

13 hours ago, steveman0 said:

The more I think about it, the more I see it as the silence being the safest way to put the project into hibernation.  There is too much money on the table for them not to finish development and release as @K^2 has summarized nicely.  The financial situation combined with the apparent troubles in IG suggest they might take the combined opportunity to save money for the time being and return to the project with a refreshed team/studio at some undetermined point in the future.  It wouldn't do them any good to announce a cancellation if they aren't really planning to cancel it, and it doesn't do them any good to tell people that their EA game is going to be getting minimal support for the time being.  Better to just go silent and disappear for a bit. 

Really reaching here, mate.

You're willing to admit that out of all the projects they've got in the pipeline, this was right at the bottom of their list in terms of revenue outweighing cost, but you're not willing to admit that they have the alternative of just coming up with other options in the future instead of coming back to this.

Why even come back to it later when you can just, you know... not?

You don't need to try to school me on the money part. It's pretty clear they don't think there are enough possible future sales to justify funding it anymore, or they would have funded it.

At the end of the day the finance and accounting people made the projections and this one got the axe. No need to come back to it when they can develop something more financially promising.

Besides, they already got your money.

[Ker Ball One]

34 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

aren't going to be interested in having to purchase another game, and then purchase DLC

Yeah.  I know.  I'm just illustrating a point about dreaming and wishing so hard it bends reality.

34 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

We don't know if the game is cancelled or not.

Cancelled isn't a concern.  That word is meaningless here.  Abandonment is the question.

And yes, there's a huge difference.  Because of the "Early Access" business model, this kind of project can be "abandoned" without being "cancelled".  They simply just stop paying everyone and ignore the community. Then the project is abandoned.

And this is exactly what has happened.  No further proof required.  The studio will be laid off and they won't get paid beyond that date.  And they've already stopped all communications.

It's like so many dead FOSS projects.  They don't call them "cancelled", they call them "abandoned".  Yes, that leaves people with hope.  But it's functionally dead until someone forks it.  The problem is that KSP is not open source, so nobody can just pick it up.

I think it's a fallacy to think that there's equal burden to prove one way or another.  The burden of proof is absolutely on them to confirm that they are still working on this.  I'm sure they will say that they will continue to "Support" the game.  But it's another term that is equally vague and weak.  We know that there are minor updates in the pipeline already, so support is likely to mean just continuing to flush the pipe. 

People paid full price for a game that will be "developed further", not merely "supported" at it's current stage.  Again, that is the serious problem with asking full price for an early access game.   "Early Access" assumes that there is more development to be done.

34 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

We seriously have no clue what is going to happen

No, I disagree with that seriously.  There are very big clues, even hard evidence about what has happened and what is happening now.

It's just that people who paid have a sunken cost fallacy and are completely blinded to all of the clues right in their face.  That's why denial is the first and often the strongest stage of grief.

Unfortunately, when something is abandoned without communication, there will always be people who cling to the remote possibilities that linger.

It's like a bad breakup, where one side is so invested in the relationship.  And Nate has just ghosted you.  Don't cling to the hope.  His lack of acknowledgment is all the proof you need to move on.

Edited May 17 by Ker Ball One

[PDCWolf]

5 hours ago, TLTay said:

Really reaching here, mate.

You're willing to admit that out of all the projects they've got in the pipeline, this was right at the bottom of their list in terms of revenue outweighing cost, but you're not willing to admit that they have the alternative of just coming up with other options in the future instead of coming back to this.

Why even come back to it later when you can just, you know... not?

You don't need to try to school me on the money part. It's pretty clear they don't think there are enough possible future sales to justify funding it anymore, or they would have funded it.

At the end of the day the finance and accounting people made the projections and this one got the axe. No need to come back to it when they can develop something more financially promising.

Besides, they already got your money.

I can imagine some accountant or analyst looking at how KSP2 got

• 7 years of time in the oven.
• Had to fund an entirely new studio over what possibly was licensing issues (or wanting to keep more money inside by making it a subsidiary).
• There was literally no game as the date approached, they only had a tech demo that barely worked and required top hardware to be playable.
• A massive media event where they flew in youtubers to play.
• A full year+ of development.
• Another media event for the first "mainline feature update".
• Literal hours of high production video footage as interviews, feature episodes and what not.
• A very aggressive marketing campaign.
• Having had to kill that marketing campaign because it was more harmful than good for the product.
• AFTER ALL OF THAT, the game only got ~10% the sales of the original, and a dubious rating, which is now even lower.

That analyst or accountant, even in their very first job or with 20 years of experience, would've looked at that and gone "who thought this was a good idea?" before crossing it out of the list.

KSP2 has such a horrible performance compared to its budget that really, I doubt we'll ever see anything about the IP, not just anymore KSP2 but the whole thing will probably never be touched again.

 

Edited May 17 by PDCWolf

[Scarecrow71]

1 hour ago, Ker Ball One said:

No, I disagree with that seriously.

Show me exactly where we were told what is going to happen.  If you can't, then all you are doing is speculating, which then means my statement about us not knowing what is going to happen is true.  You can believe, or speculate, or hope all you want.  You can try to read clues or what-have-you.  The only fact is that we have NOT been told what is going to happen.  Period.  Anything other than that is pure speculation.

[TLTay]

1 hour ago, PDCWolf said:

I can imagine some accountant or analyst looking at how KSP2 got

• 7 years of time in the oven.
• Had to fund an entirely new studio over what possibly was licensing issues (or wanting to keep more money inside by making it a subsidiary).
• There was literally no game as the date approached, they only had a tech demo that barely worked and required top hardware to be playable.
• A massive media event where they flew in youtubers to play.
• A full year+ of development.
• Another media event for the first "mainline feature update".
• Literal hours of high production video footage as interviews, feature episodes and what not.
• A very aggressive marketing campaign.
• Having had to kill that marketing campaign because it was more harmful than good for the product.
• AFTER ALL OF THAT, the game only got 1% the sales of the original, and a dubious rating, which is now even lower.

That analyst or accountant, even in their very first job or with 20 years of experience, would've looked at that and gone "who thought this was a good idea?" before crossing it out of the list.

KSP2 has such a horrible performance compared to its budget that really, I doubt we'll ever see anything about the IP, not just anymore KSP2 but the whole thing will probably never be touched again.

 

It was a colossal disaster that they only didn't cancel in the first place because they knew they could dump it into EA to recoup part of the cost.