My Patience has run out, now I am just disgusted.

[RayneCloud]

Well, that's that then. Good luck @Dakota in what comes next for you. All my best. 

 

[Stevie_D]

Best of luck, @Dakota

Not that I thought Dakota would be allowed to tell us anything at all by the higher ups, but now it's pretty obvious that we'll be getting no news for a while, while Private Division sort themselves out and decide what they're going to do.

[dprostock]

In the 90's I worked in a company where we were four programmers (today's developers) for accounting and insurance company products.  Then they began to hire people up to quintuple the workforce in a worrying way, including even graphic designers who complicated everything because they lived from meeting to brainstorm. Yes, the company collapsed miserably in less than a year. 

[jaxmed]

15 minutes ago, RayneCloud said:

Well, that's that then. Good luck @Dakota in what comes next for you. All my best. 

 

@blackrack Also confirmed on Discord that he's no longer working on KSP2 and is going back to working on EVE stuff for KSP1 on his Patreon.

[AtomicTech]

23 minutes ago, RayneCloud said:

Well, that's that then. Good luck @Dakota in what comes next for you. All my best. 

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

5 minutes ago, jaxmed said:

@blackrack Also confirmed on Discord that he's no longer working on KSP2 and is going back to working on EVE stuff for KSP1 on his Patreon.

Well folks, is it time to get worried?

[RayneCloud]

There we go everyone, it's over. 

https://youtu.be/hH2WjcoHI9g?si=ONu13AxQkcSLTHKR

[Meecrob]

13 hours ago, RayneCloud said:

Some of what you've said in here, is incredibly dismissive and patronizing.

Thats life. I could go on for hours about how my dreams were shattered in the 2008 financial crisis but I don't because I'm an adult and I moved on with my life. Now I'm going to be an aerospace engineer; before I was a mechanic. If I never took the fall in 2008, I'd still be a grease monkey rather than the person desiging the aircraft.

[snippage has occurred] 

Edited May 3 by Deddly

[KerbolExplorer]

Honestly this was all but expected seeing how the game was handled since it's release. It's ok having an early access game be buggy, unfinished and all of the stuff ksp2 was on initial release. What is not ok is to be as passive as the ksp2 team has been. The game took around a year to be somewhat playable and with the slow, scattered about updates. that's simply unacceptable in an early access title.

I've purchased several early access games before(both subnauticas, stormworks, ravenfield....), and all of them had frequent and clear communication from the team, and most importantly UPDATES. They have beta branches that the players can boot up and see what the team has been working, see the damn game being made.

But in KSP2's case, we first of all had to pay nearly full price for what was in essence a really, really, rough sketch of what IG envisioned. This combined with the slow updates and terrible communication from the team just brew the perfect storm to sink this ship. In my honest opinion, what killed ksp2 was mismanagement, simple as that, it showed the second the first early access trailer was showed. The game was supposed to be out 4 years ago fully complete, and here we are with science and maybe colonies at the end of the year, if the project doesn't go to the trash can in june.

 

Welp, the hype around science was fun I guess.

[Deddly]

There's enough mess going on in the world that we don't have to add to it by bickering and sniping at each other. Let's be nice so we don't have to snip and remove any more posts.

[Meecrob]

22 minutes ago, Deddly said:

There's enough mess going on in the world that we don't have to add to it by bickering and sniping at each other. Let's be nice so we don't have to snip and remove any more posts.

I'm sorry.

Please allow me to re-phrase:

Layoffs are a part of employment. They 100% suck, but they are definitely not devastating. They are life altering, but not life shattering. Take every negative turn with curiosity; "where will this lead me? It might be bad, but I'll gain knowledge and be able to better protect myself from other bad things in the future, and hey, maybe it leads to an opportunity!"

For anyone who did see what I wrote before, I apologize for my temper. When you have gone through double digits of layoffs personally, it is hard for me to hear about how one is ruining peoples lives. However, that is no excuse for me to take it out on anyone. For that I apologize.

Specifically to @RayneCloud, I was hoping to point out to you to get your emotions in check, but it turns out I needed to get mine in check as well. As it goes, lots of beautiful friendships start off with a misunderstanding! I hope that will happen here, because I genuinely respect you, your service to your country, and your service to the KSP community! I did mean it when I wished you a wonderful day, I was not being petty. We had a little squabble and its over, life goes on and I hope you are enjoying your day!

Edited May 3 by Meecrob

[Meecrob]

1 hour ago, Meecrob said:

[snippage has occurred] 

Beautiful phrasing! *Chef's kiss*

[TLTay]

2 hours ago, Siska said:

I am project manager with 15 developers and 6 designers in my team working in field for 15 years (not gaming). My experience is that you never layoff workers that do a good job. If cuts come, you layoff the ones that contributed the least. Maybe whole studio did not contribute much as such. I am compassionate with people that loss their job. Heck we even employ people as long as it had to for them to find another job. So much for not giving a damn. I plainly said that these things happen and people have to adapt. Did anyone cried for all the programmers that google laid off on last year and a half? As much as i see on forum people were blaiming devs for everything while i mantained distance from that and blaimed bad management. As for AI, people that know basic programming will be impacted as for true developers and engineers i don't think there is any worry. And as from my experience, not a single programmer that knows how to do it's job wasn't without one for more than a month. 

What country? Just curious. It's common right now for programmers etc in the US and higher paying western European countries to have extended periods of unemployment. I'm going to guess you might be in a country the corporations outsource those jobs to, and thus have no issue finding an abundance of work.

[Icegrx]

33 minutes ago, Meecrob said:

Layoffs are a part of employment. They 100% suck, but they are definitely not devastating.

Imagine having a kid who requires a medication/treatment to remain alive. Your insurance covers 70% of the costs, but still costs you $1000-$5000 per medication/treatment out of pocket.

you live paycheck to paycheck, you lose your job. You file unemployment but your previous employer fights it. You’re now in a weeks/months long debate between unemployment and your previous employer as to if you qualify. 

this is devastating, and only one scenario out of 1000s of other scenarios that could be equally devastating. 

this is just not something to argue. You have no idea what situations others are in. You can’t tell someone something is devastating or not to their situation. 

Edited May 3 by Icegrx

[Meecrob]

1 hour ago, Icegrx said:

Imagine having a kid who requires a medication/treatment to remain alive. Your insurance covers 70% of the costs, but still costs you $1000-$5000 per medication/treatment out of pocket.

you live paycheck to paycheck, you lose your job. You file unemployment but your previous employer fights it. You’re now in a weeks/months long debate between unemployment and your previous employer as to if you qualify. 

this is devastating, and only one scenario out of 1000s of other scenarios that could be equally devastating. 

this is just not something to argue. You have no idea what situations others are in. You can’t tell someone something is devastating or not to their situation. 

Yes, now imagine that I have my own life and I have my own exprience and yes, I know exactly what you are getting at. The part you miss is that life sucks. Get over it. Like do you want a medal for being in a bad sitution?

[Fizzlebop Smith]

2 hours ago, Meecrob said:

Yes, now imagine that I have my own life and I have my own exprience and yes, I know exactly what you are getting at. The part you miss is that life sucks. Get over it. Like do you want a medal for being in a bad sitution?

That's not what is being said. Merely pointing out the situations you have experienced may not be analogous.

This is infered by your stance that potential unemployment can in no way be considered devastating to a developer. 

So others are trying to alleviate your ignorance by describing situations where unemployment may be devastating.

Yea, the world does suck ass. That's life. Misery is the one common experience all of humanity shares with one another.

No one deserve a medal just for being shat on. I would grant them the courtesy of not dismissing or invalidating the severity of their situations.

He'll, they could be financially stable and a die hard KSP fan. If *I* were working on the franchise and lost my job... I would absolutely be devastated even if I never had another financial worry.

Life is full of subjective experience. Merely adopting a self ascribed stance of authority does not lend objective merit to your arguments.

[Skorj]

Bit of advice to anyone in the software industry from an old head: it's on you to be financially responsible with the sure and certain knowledge that you will be laid off multiple times in your career.  No, I didn't do that before I was 30 either, but a wise man learns from the mistakes of others.  Yes, it sucks, but it's a well-paying job you get to do indoors with no heavy lifting, and I have no regrets about my career choice.

More advice to anyone who will listen: you generally benefit greatly from being willing to relocate to follow the hot hiring locations for good dev jobs, as that changes once or twice a decade.  If you're in some place that "used to be" good for dev jobs, there's a real chance it's not coming back.  Devs in one city might all be complaining about how hard it is to find any job at all, while teams in another city are desperate to hire anyone.  There are good reasons why someone can't move (kids in school, spouse with a better job, etc), but don't let simple fear of change hold you back.

 

7 hours ago, Siska said:

I am project manager with 15 developers and 6 designers in my team working in field for 15 years (not gaming). My experience is that you never layoff workers that do a good job. If cuts come, you layoff the ones that contributed the least. Maybe whole studio did not contribute much as such. I am compassionate with people that loss their job. Heck we even employ people as long as it had to for them to find another job. So much for not giving a damn. I plainly said that these things happen and people have to adapt. Did anyone cried for all the programmers that google laid off on last year and a half? As much as i see on forum people were blaiming devs for everything while i mantained distance from that and blaimed bad management. As for AI, people that know basic programming will be impacted as for true developers and engineers i don't think there is any worry. And as from my experience, not a single programmer that knows how to do it's job wasn't without one for more than a month. 

I saw several office closures over my career,  Only in one case were the junior devs not doing a good job.  All the rest were either "turns out the product didn't sell well, end of company" or "senior management at a remote office got too arrogant with their demands, and corporate decided it was easier to close the office than put up with them".  In every case senior leadership had make critical mistakes that doomed everyone, but it was rarely an indication of the skill of the junior devs.

On the flipside, we always looked at hiring junior devs who were affected by such closures as a great opportunity to find talent, not a black mark against the devs.

[robgraham]

I hate this, I hate the fact that what some of us were worried about and questioning has become fact, I love KSP I've been here in one form or another since the first days of this franchise being public, I have fond memories of talking with Harv over the launch tower being needed, of trying to mod it in and him giving us one next patch. But from day 0 of KSP2's release we've been patronised, lied to, misinformed and generally treated with contempt in a lot of ways, and when we brought that to light we got squished on or told that we have no idea what it's like... This is often to people who have years of Development experience in the industry.

Communication is a key factor in maintaining community good will, maintaining community relations and building up a strong foundation for your game base going forwards. In the past a certain CS rep understood that and did it very well, here since KSP2 it has always felt like Dakota has had her hands tied and wasn't allowed to engage. I feel for the KSP2 CS reps because they were just doing their jobs.

I am less than empathetic with the management who have gotten us to this point. The same management who refused to acknowledge that part of what made KSP1 healthy were the fast pace updates, and rapid feedback that was given / gotten because of it, the same updates that showed the community that had built around KSP 1 that they were being listened to and not just left on the side as if they were wallets and nothing more.

I honestly think PD and TT never understood the way that Harv and Squad had built the community around KSP, how that openness and willingness to communicate and just throw things out there and see what stuck worked, even when what they were doing failed. Harv and squad were transparent, hell even during their BIGGEST CONTROVERSY they were TRANSPARENT about it, when they realised that a wording on a promise they made to all of us original 7$ backers was gonna cost them a LOT of future revenue around KSP1, they could have been right ****'s about it and gone 'we never meant it like that suck it up your paying for expansions' instead they went 'We never meant it like that, but thats on us.. we'll suck it up.' That type of attitude and communication that general mindset meant that community good will was something that they had by the TRUCK LOAD.

Private Division and Intercept Games took those trucks and threw them off a cliff, first with the attitude around the games launch and what customers felt was a bait and switch. The lack of updates, the lack of communication, telling us that the long cycles were 'for our benefit' etc. It wasn't it seems. But worse they are burning the last good will the community has right now, simply by refusing to tell us what the heck is going on.

We paid for a product, we paid based on a specific roadmap and feature set. 

We deserve to know if we are still getting that and the time frames for it along with the current state of development and who is responsible for it.

And if we are not, we deserve to be given a refund, because PD and Intercept Games have not delivered on the finished product and I don't care what you try and say about 'Early Access', Early Access isn't an excuse to pull the rug out from under paying customers, it's meant to allow customers to be along for the development until release, your still expected to release the product, EA isn't Kickstarter your not buying on the chance of it never coming out, your buying simply to be part of the development process basically to become unpaid alpha testers, when hey we USED to be paid to do that lol not pay to be allowed to do it.

 

To Dakota and those who tried. I know we haven't always seen eye to eye but thank you for TRYING.

To the Management who screwed this up and aren't communicating with us right now.. You've nothing but my contempt.

[BrobDingnag]

16 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

If they had simply remade KSP1 with 1) better optimization, 2) less bugs

This is all I would have wanted.  Not even graphics. Tighten up the engine. Make the bird sing. Make it capable of efficiently handling ludicrous distance numbers so that the true scale of interstellar travel could be handled in-game without stutter, glitches, or crashes. And then just let the modders do their thing. I'd love to play Galaxies Unbound, for example, but my CPU is almost certainly too old and I'd have to buy more RAM despite having 24 gigs. If KSP2 had been just the same but with a cleaner, more optimized engine, maybe it would've been possible for me. As it stands, I just run a game with OPM and Grannus and I'll see if I can get that far, at least.

Quote

How was multiplayer going to work?

Real-time only, of course. Not even the Paradox game implementation would've worked.

Quote

How were Rask and Rusk supposed to work without N-body physics?

Didn't they say they intended for Lagrange points to be implemented eventually? Maybe like that.

Quote

how were interstellar transfers supposed to work (the thrust while under time acceleration was a big let down

Having not played KSP2, I can't comment on what you mean by the latter, but wouldn't the former just be like any other transfer? Select the body, draw the maneuver node, point the ship, and hit the button at the right time? Maybe they could add a MechJeb-like automation to the game just for automating transfer lines between solar systems to cut down on the tedium of getting threading a needle from light years away.

Or maybe a disgruntled employee will release an internal build shown in the pre-release videos that includes other systems, colony parts, etc. and we can find out for ourselves...

[Flush Foot]

9 minutes ago, BrobDingnag said:

Quote

How were Rask and Rusk supposed to work without N-body physics?

Didn't they say they intended for Lagrange points to be implemented eventually? Maybe like that.

I definitely do not remember Lagrange points being mentioned, but seem to recall someone (Nate?) saying that Rask & Rusk would have a 'bespoke solution/implementation'

[BrobDingnag]

9 minutes ago, Flush Foot said:

I definitely do not remember Lagrange points being mentioned, but seem to recall someone (Nate?) saying that Rask & Rusk would have a 'bespoke solution/implementation'

That may be what I'm thinking about.

[Bej Kerman]

6 hours ago, Meecrob said:

The part you miss is that life sucks

And the part you missed is that you lack empathy.

[AtomicTech]

5 minutes ago, BrobDingnag said:

That may be what I'm thinking about.

Yes, we were promised N-body physics but limited to the planetary scale.

1 minute ago, Bej Kerman said:

And the part you missed is that you lack empathy.

Y'all both missed the forum rules that we DO NOT attack each other.

[Westinghouse]

16 minutes ago, Flush Foot said:

I definitely do not remember Lagrange points being mentioned, but seem to recall someone (Nate?) saying that Rask & Rusk would have a 'bespoke solution/implementation'

I'm also curious to know how they planned Rask and Ruas to work.

Other things I'd like to know:

How would collisions work with planetary rings of Glumo and the other planets with rings showcased?

What was the list of resources they planned to introduce and their corresponding rocket fuel types?

Would colony buildings be rigid bodies that could collapse like seen in the trailer?

What was the planned narrative? What was the story behind all those monuments?

[Bej Kerman]

5 minutes ago, AtomicTech said:

Y'all both missed the forum rules that we DO NOT attack each other.

I forgot the moral high ground was centered entirely around being polite.

[Scarecrow71]

 

3 hours ago, Skorj said:

Bit of advice to anyone in the software industry from an old head: it's on you to be financially responsible with the sure and certain knowledge that you will be laid off multiple times in your career.

I agree with everything you said in your post, but I'd change one thing in what I quoted here.  Instead of "...to anyone in the software industry..." I'd say "...to anyone who has a job...".  Regardless of your career choice, we all face the possibility of being laid off or fired several times over the course of our careers.  The company I work for recently (within the last 2 weeks) announced a series of layoffs that will impact ~1000 people across the org.  And it's not the first time they've done it; my wife (yes, she and I worked for the same company for many years) was let go in April 2023.  And while she got a nice severance package AND a boatload of unemployment, a lot of her co-workers weren't so lucky.

So yeah, anybody is subject to this.  It's a terrible but harsh reality of the corporate world we live in.