IGN reports: T2 wants to get rid of the IP, they want to offload PD completely.

[Pthigrivi]

2 minutes ago, Lisias said:

Yes, but they have a point. Nate, as it appears (yep, cheeks-covering ongoing!), was their proxy on the lies.

But so was Dakota. I just don't hold him personally accountable for decisions that were not on him or on relaying what he was told to the rest of us. That seems nuts and unfair me. 

[Scarecrow71]

1 minute ago, Pthigrivi said:

But so was Dakota. I just don't hold him personally accountable for decisions that were not on him or on relaying what he was told to the rest of us. That seems nuts and unfair me. 

Dakota doesn't have a history of this happening while he's in a customer-facing position.  Nate, unfortunately, does.  You cannot sit there and tell us that Nate, throughout MULTIPLE failed games, is completely in the clear for responsibility.  The odds are simply astronomical that he has been oblivious in all of the situations.

[Lisias]

49 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said:

But so was Dakota. I just don't hold him personally accountable for decisions that were not on him or on relaying what he was told to the rest of us. That seems nuts and unfair me. 

And it is. But, unfortunately, it's on the job description: once you gag yourself on a NDA, you accept the risk.

Been there, done that. My team The team which I belonged took the blame for a pretty stupid mistake made by an overseas team because we just couldn't talk about, and our colleagues (from the same Company, but different projects) assumed it was our fault because we refused to talk about.

Sometimes, you just can't win.

 

47 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Dakota doesn't have a history of this happening while he's in a customer-facing position.  Nate, unfortunately, does.  

Indeed. But consider that it was his duty on that previous jobs. Literally,  it was on his job description.

To what extend this would affect our perception about his working ethics it's something we can debate about.

Again, been there, done that.

Fortunately I wasn't in a position in which I had to lie to 3rd parties - it was enough and sufficient to stay shut and let people conclude whatever they wanted.

But, seriously, between the choice of lying or losing the job and get my cheeks ripped appart on a lawsuit that potentially would cost me my home, the choice would be obvious.

It's pretty hard to rise a kid without a roof over their head, you know?

Edited June 3 by Lisias
Entertaining grammars made less entertaining.

[Pthigrivi]

4 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Dakota doesn't have a history of this happening while he's in a customer-facing position.  Nate, unfortunately, does.  You cannot sit there and tell us that Nate, throughout MULTIPLE failed games, is completely in the clear for responsibility.  The odds are simply astronomical that he has been oblivious in all of the situations.

I didn't follow those other games. I did follow the development of KSP2 about as closely as was possible. Nate is the creative director. He oversees the look, feel, and overall design of the game. I personally think those aspects of the game were really pretty great. He got the tone and look of the game right, the overall scope was ambitious but definitely worthy of a true successor to the game. It's a little more controversial but I think eliminating money and simplifying heat were the right moves. I also think folks who say rockets should have been 100 rigid and shatter like glass are wrong, though obviously the amount of wobble at launch was also way overboard. Im also not personally crazy about the lore aspects of the game but I think with a more fleshed out mission tree and the ability to map points of interest from orbit the overall science gameplay would be a big improvement over the original. In short I think he did a great job at the things that were his job. He was also really personally passionate about KSP and that made him a good spokesperson in the videos you saw. Keep in mind there are lots of other people who had more power than he did, you just don't know their names or faces so you've latched on to Nate because he's a face you can focus your anger on rather than an amorphous megacorp and the social climate that allows them to abuse employees and customers alike. Those are the people who set unreasonable timelines, ignored technical challenges, and forced out an EA that was clearly not ready for prime time. Those decisions cost us the game we were promised, the people at IG their jobs, and in the end cost T2 and their investors money. 

[kerbiloid]

Somebody has to be an anthropomorphic personification of evil, otherwise whom to blame?

[Scarecrow71]

31 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said:

I didn't follow those other games.

By that logic, I didn't follow KSP1 until it was already at 1.8, so the history of the devs and Squad and whomever else was involved doesn't matter, right?

My point is that Nate's history is working against him.  Whether or not it is right to blame him for whatever shortfalls KSP2 had, he was the public face of the game AND he has a history of making these kinds of promises with games that failed.  That all works to his disadvantage, right or wrong.

[Fizzlebop Smith]

Nate Simpson is an incompetent Manager who has run every game he touches into the ground is libelous.

I feel Nate Simspon Is an extreme Narcissist and my personal opinion paints him as completely incompetent.. is not

That isn't to say somebody couldn't CLAIM the latter is as well.  It would involve a lengthy process involving a chain of causality with my "stated opinion"  proven to have impacted bottom line, reputation in some meaningful way.

However since inam a nobody without significant period in the industry establishing my opinion as something of merit.

 

So really is as much about who is doing the "saying" as "what" is being said.

 

[PDCWolf]

12 hours ago, WatchClarkBand said:

I just want to point out that everyone at Intercept only knew what they were told by PD and T2. Jeremy assured myself and everyone at Intercept around launch (when T2 was doing other rounds of layoffs) that neither PD nor Intercept would be hit with any layoffs. A day or two before I was walked out the door, he got a call informing him that he and I were being cut, and he had to do the exit meeting with me (as my manager). He asked "Paul said he was going to get a KSP tattoo upon launch, can I tell him not to do that?" He was told he couldn't pass on that info, and if I got inked before I was let go, that was just too bad for me. Luckily, I was only looking at artists at the time, and hadn't scheduled anything, but... if you believe anyone at Intercept had full view of the financials and strategic planning, you're mistaken.

At the risk of sounding condescending, accusatory or offensive (I'm not trying to, sorry in advance), and not knowing how much you can talk about...  You mentioned Shana was still hired and working when you joined, pointing to you joining prior to September 2022 where she says (on linkedin) that she left Intercept (something we never discussed in this forum as it was never mentioned IIRC). This means you saw the Design Director leave. Who else did you see? Didn't those consistent layoffs and/or people just walking not set off any alarm?

[Scarecrow71]

46 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

Didn't those consistent layoffs and/or people just walking not set off any alarm?

Without having any knowledge of the situation, and without having any insider information about Intercept...

Stuff like that happens in some industries all the time.  It isn't all that uncommon for people to come and go, especially on large projects.  The company I work for has layoffs and firings and people walking out all the time, and nobody really questions it.  The gaming industry, I imagine, is pretty ruthless and everyone is always looking for a bigger payday or more money or more responsibility.  It wouldn't surprise me or cause any weirdness (in my opinion) to see people coming and going all the time.

[kerbiloid]

2 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

My point is that Nate's history is working against him.  Whether or not it is right to blame him for whatever shortfalls KSP2 had, he was the public face of the game AND he has a history of making these kinds of promises with games that failed.  That all works to his disadvantage, right or wrong.

Negative reputation is still a reputation.
Just the employers differ.

Spoiler

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uwe_Boll

 

2 hours ago, Fizzlebop Smith said:

Nate Simpson is an incompetent Manager who has run every game he touches into the ground is libelous.

If so, then weren't those games producers enough competent to see, whom they hire and why?

Sometimes the undercover struggle between the tops takes weird forms...

Edited June 3 by kerbiloid

[boriz]

KSP was a passion project. A heart felt indi game, with all the unique little clunky quirks we have come to love. Something beautiful made by a hand full of talented artists/engineers that obviously loved what they were doing.

KSP2, in it's current form. began with a hostile appropriation of KSP devs that were then put under the yolk. A bit like Peter Griffin poking the Asian Kid. It was dirty from square one. I remember saying on another forum that I was disgusted with this behaviour and would never give them a penny, and I'm pleased to say, I haven't. I genuinely hope they lost a lot of money on KSP2, and perhaps, learned a lesson. A lesson that, in an ideal world, other would-be talent sucking corporate vampires will learn too.

(The music industry went the same way. I always hate the word 'industry' being associated with art. It feels like an oxymoron to me, like 'fragrant sewer' or 'honest politician'.)

[Spicat]

4 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

throughout MULTIPLE failed games

Which one?

[WatchClarkBand]

On 6/3/2024 at 8:58 AM, PDCWolf said:

At the risk of sounding condescending, accusatory or offensive (I'm not trying to, sorry in advance), and not knowing how much you can talk about...  You mentioned Shana was still hired and working when you joined, pointing to you joining prior to September 2022 where she says (on linkedin) that she left Intercept (something we never discussed in this forum as it was never mentioned IIRC). This means you saw the Design Director leave. Who else did you see? Didn't those consistent layoffs and/or people just walking not set off any alarm?

Shana and I started at Intercept on the same day. She was still there when I left.

[Pthigrivi]

1 hour ago, WatchClarkBand said:

Shana and I started at Intercept on the same day. She was still there when I left.

I really appreciate you chiming in though I know there are limits to what you can say. I do just want to emphasize that so many of the game design and technical decisions made were so smart and I know thats gotten lost a bit in the last year for reasons that were not at all under your control. I know how much passion went into KSP2 and I just really appreciate how much you and so many others poured into it and it honestly makes me angry that the team has been treated this way. It not right, but I do hope you and everyone else on the team has found greener pastures. I hope you’ve all found places where art, design, and commitment to this craft is really valued. 

Edited June 6 by Pthigrivi

[herbal space program]

On 6/2/2024 at 8:26 PM, WatchClarkBand said:

A day or two before I was walked out the door, he got a call informing him that he and I were being cut, and he had to do the exit meeting with me (as my manager). He asked "Paul said he was going to get a KSP tattoo upon launch, can I tell him not to do that?" He was told he couldn't pass on that info, and if I got inked before I was let go, that was just too bad for me.

Words fail me. Human beings should not treat each other that way, no matter how much money is at stake. And I don't doubt for a second that you and everybody else at IG were all in on making KSP2 the best computer game ever. As far as I can tell, you got dealt an unplayable hand and then got scapegoated when you couldn't win with it.

Edited June 6 by herbal space program

[HebaruSan]

36 minutes ago, herbal space program said:

Words fail me. Human beings should not treat each other that way, no matter how much money is at stake.

I can only assume TTWO felt that you get tattoos based on what the product is at the time of tattooing, not what it might be in the future.

[WatchClarkBand]

1 hour ago, herbal space program said:

Words fail me. Human beings should not treat each other that way, no matter how much money is at stake. 

When I was at AMZN, there was one manager that a coworker and I used to talk about. My coworker once said  of him, without one shred of irony, "that guy would stab his own mother in the back for $5." I completely agreed.

Capitalism has been good to me, but man, it sets up some really toxic people to be in roles with power that they should never be able to wield.

[kerbiloid]

10 hours ago, WatchClarkBand said:

When I was at AMZN, there was one manager that a coworker and I used to talk about. My coworker once said  of him, without one shred of irony, "that guy would stab his own mother in the back for $5." I completely agreed.

Btw, was granny still alive to the date?

[Scarecrow71]

I wonder if we'll finally get that awesome build the developers were constantly playing that Nate always said was bringing so much joy and fun to the studio.

[Lisias]

9 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

I wonder if we'll finally get that awesome build the developers were constantly playing that Nate always said was bringing so much joy and fun to the studio.

I remember someone saying that it was a modded KSP¹ with MultiPlayer.

[Grenartia]

On 6/6/2024 at 12:36 AM, WatchClarkBand said:

When I was at AMZN, there was one manager that a coworker and I used to talk about. My coworker once said  of him, without one shred of irony, "that guy would stab his own mother in the back for $5." I completely agreed.

Capitalism has been good to me, but man, it sets up some really toxic people to be in roles with power that they should never be able to wield.

I imagine if he overheard, he'd consider it a compliment. 

[Bej Kerman]

On 6/6/2024 at 6:36 AM, WatchClarkBand said:

Capitalism has been good to me

Objectively false.

[The Aziz]

Outersloth should pick it up.

https://www.ign.com/articles/among-us-dev-innersloth-announces-indie-fund-side-project-outersloth

 

[WatchClarkBand]

12 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Objectively false.

Eh… I took the role at Intercept because I wanted to, not because I needed to.  In all the ways capitalism has screwed people over, I’m a minor victim. There are so many worse injustices that should be solved well before anything I’ve experienced. 

[Fizzlebop Smith]

I saw a steam post that seems to cover this topic

Steam Community :: Guide :: how to pretend that everything is fine

Edited June 8 by Fizzlebop Smith