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[1.8x - 1.11x] Kerbal Weather Project (KWP) v1.0.0


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3 hours ago, Shawn Kerman said:

I do not know if the mod is more pc intensive, but I do know I don't drop frames with it installed. Here's me in game with no fps drop, and what ksp is currently taking. I have max graphics settings on btw.IEY5Cxk.pnga6GfBbH.jpg?width=1248&height=702

It would be helpful to know what CPU & GPU you're using so other players can make an comparison to their machines specs. My A10 APU usually holds between 28-40% cpu usage and 98-100% gpu with dropped frames @ 1080 with med to low graphics with a lightly modded game. (no visual mods, only helper and parts mods.)

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My specs are:

CPU: Core I-5 9600K

GPU: GTX 1660 TI

RAM:  32GB DDR4 ( IDK THE MHz for it)

The drive ksp was on: some kind of Samsung evo ssd at 1TB.

All of this with the max settings, excluding scatters at 1080p. No mods at all, although I still got no fps drops with a good amount of visuals and galaxies unbound also.

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@cmet24 I think this fits FAR goal perfectly, would something like FARWind work for pressure and temperature? I could extend FARWind to be a generic atmosphere model albeit it wouldn't be called FARWind at that point.

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46 minutes ago, eberkain said:

Any plans for weather on Eve / Laythe / Duna?

Judging by what I read on the website, it would require the weather to be recalculated specially for each. 

Spoiler

Would there even BE weather on Eve? I have no idea. It would kind of annoying if Eve had super powerful wind in combination withs its other issues.

 

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Just now, Spaceman.Spiff said:

Judging by what I read on the website, it would require the weather to be recalculated specially for each. 

As it should be, but I didn't know if OP had any plans for that in the future or if it was just going to be Kerbin weather. 

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@linuxgurugamer there shouldn't be much impact on the CPU. Since the weather simulation is offline and pre-calculated the most complex calculations performed by KWP are trilinear and bilinear interpolation. 

I've performed some preliminary performance testing on my desktop PC with the following specs:

  • CPU: Intel Core i5 7600K
  • GPU: GeForce GTX 1060 6GB
  • RAM: 16GB DDR4
  • Storage: Kingston 240 GB SSD

For performance testing I setup a repeat scenario wherein I took the Aeris 3A up to 1 km ASL and set atmospheric autopilot to fly east at a fixed speed of 330 m/s. 32d23e_4de55c6e9a1e4235a9421f629a9b02d0~

I repeated this scenario with and without KWP. 

Modlist without KWP:

  • Atmospheric Autopilot
  • Module Manager

Modlist with KWP:

  • Atmospheric Autopilot
  • Module Manager
  • Zero MiniAVC
  • Click Through Blocker
  • Kerbal Weather Project
  • ModularFlightIntegrator
  • Toolbar Controller

The results were as follows:

No KWP:

32d23e_eab24854a7f34028a39a30d537f0c8a8~

With KWP:

At the point where there is a dip in GPU and CPU usage I swapped KWP from climatology to point weather. I found little difference in CPU and GPU usage between each mode.

*Note that the CPU and GPU % values don't match the screenshot from in-game as the tool used in game shows the total usage for all processes not just KSP.

32d23e_7071014f04e34fcabda7ce25a2589b3b~

Ignoring the noisy instantaneous values (under the bars on the left) and looking at the average position of the line on the filled charts, the results suggest that the impact of KWP on the CPU and GPU are not significant.

 Just to be sure, I also tested KWP on my Acer Aspire A515 Laptop:

  • i5-1035G1 CPU @ 1.00 GHz
  • 8GB DDR3 RAM
  • Intel UHD Graphics G1
  • 240GB SSD

No KWP:

32d23e_78b9504f21364d4ea0d5809ba49e6fcf~

KWP: 

32d23e_7a6cc613ebfa487faeb6e241fdbf294a~

On my laptop and on my desktop there appeared to be, at most, an increase in CPU usage by 1-2%. On my desktop there was a slight increase in GPU usage with KWP. On my laptop the GPU was overwhelmed regardless of whether KWP was installed or not (it struggles even with the stock game).

All said, KWP shouldn't be a significant burden on any computer that has no problem running stock KSP.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 1/6/2021 at 3:09 AM, FreeThinker said:

I think it should be sufficient if you could simply expose a public static class with a few simple methods that would  return  a basic double given a specific longitude and latitude . For me in particular I'm intrested in getting the current temperature , overcast percentage and air moisture .

This would allow me to replace my current simplistic sinus weater model which affect the amount of beamed power reaching space or surface.

@FreeThinkerThanks for the information. Getting a working, easily accessible API, is a goal for KWP. I imagine, precipitable water estimates in particular would be a good way of estimating the amount of beamed power making it through the atmosphere. In meteorology, we actually use the occultation of radio signals from GPS satellites to measure the temperature and moisture content of the air. 

20 hours ago, dkavolis said:

@cmet24 I think this fits FAR goal perfectly, would something like FARWind work for pressure and temperature? I could extend FARWind to be a generic atmosphere model albeit it wouldn't be called FARWind at that point.

@dkavolis I think that would work. KWP currently uses FARWind as an interface to FAR. When FAR is installed KWP does not register modular fight integrator allowing FAR to handle changes to KSP's aerodynamic and thermodynamic models. 

On 1/6/2021 at 7:20 AM, Drew Kerman said:

No, seriously my heart skipped a beat when I saw this thread. This is exactly what I've always expected a weather mod to be - someone actually interested in climatology (likely from an educational perspective as you are as well) running an external simulation that feeds data into the game. Magnifico, amazing to finally see it come to be. I need a moment here...

phew...

what's not clear tho is if this is just the current state or a permanent conflict. Have you spoken to @dkavolis, the current FAR maintainer at all? Can FAR be modified to accept the values of KWP or does it somehow rely too heavily on the values it uses?

I'm also pinging @Arrowstar to make him aware of this, since his Launch Vehicle Designer models atmospheric pressure and temperature that would be affected by this mod

I look forward very much to testing this out, and seeing how close or far I've been in my own very very general & basic modeling of Kerbin's weather for my KSA roleplay the past 4 years. Hoping I don't have to make too many obvious retcons :P my use of weather has become more of a story aspect tho - I create weather events to delay launches I need more time to prepare, for example. I've never felt comfortable causing launch delays solely due to weather I've been forced to "make up" on my own. Having the game tell me conditions are not good for launch will add a nice new aspect to dealing with missions I've been missing for years :)

@Drew Kerman You make a great a point about weather delays. In the coming weeks I plan on releasing the actual weather data in NetCDF format, which is easily readable using python. By making this data open source you could actually look at years of cloud cover data from the KSC and figure out the percentage of days when its cloudy etc. This could be of use for modders seeking to create realistic weather delays etc. Spoiler: the KSC is actually a pretty good place for a launch site. Its located on the equator so no hurricanes!  The woomerang launch site... not so much.. It's pretty stormy that far north and its often cloudy!

 

Edited by cmet24
Add link, fix typos.
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On 1/6/2021 at 10:38 AM, ballisticfox0 said:

Hello,

I'm very interested in this mod and what it will mean log term for the KSP modding community, specifically the planet modding/Kopernicus community. I was wondering if you are planning to have multi-planet support (different models for Eve, Duna, Laythe, etc) and/or custom planet support with easy to add models for modded planets in the future. This could really diversify planets.

Also do you have any experience in ROCKE-3D? If so can you help me create some models for a couple planets from the Galaxies Unbound mod?

 

8 hours ago, eberkain said:

Any plans for weather on Eve / Laythe / Duna?

@ballisticfox0 and @eberkain . I think it would be neat to get KWP to the point where it could read in files of a fixed format. If this could be accomplished creators could generate 3-D cliamatologies for their planet of choice which KWP could read and apply to the game's aerodynamic and thermodynamic models. Now, the hard part is actually making those climatologies for planets that aren't Earth like! I mentioned the ROCKE-3D model from NASA which a is an actual GCM used for exoplanet simulations. @Shawn Kerman like MPAS, ROCKE-3D is a fairly complex model and requires some knowledge of FORTRAN and geophysics. Unfortunately, its not straightforward to compile and get up and running. Its mostly Ph.D.'s that are running these sorts of models. That said, you don't have to use a full general circulation model.  If someone wanted to make a simple atmospheric model like a batrotropic vorticity model they could do so, even though it might be not be very realistic.  KWP's biggest advancement is providing a framework for incorporating atmospheric data into KSP in a way that influences gameplay.  So a simple atmospheric model for say Eve could be generated (e.g. a super-rotating atmosphere like Eve's would likely have a single equatorial jet stream, with light winds near the surface increasing with height to around 100-200 m/s winds between 30-50 km).

Perhaps this summer, if I have the time, I may look into running ROCKE-3D again. Its actually easier to do on planets without oceans like Duna. Its possible I could use MPAS to simulate Laythe's atmosphere as well. 

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3 minutes ago, Kerminator K-100 said:

Just saw the KWP lite go up and have to ask, what difference does it have from the full version?

The full version has 5 years of.... the assets that KWP has before it starts back at the beginning, the Lite version has 1 Year before it resets. That is why the Lite version is smaller.

Edited by Shawn Kerman
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@cmet24I've been thinking about something recently. Normally, it would be difficult to determine the weather data of modded planets.
However, something came to mind that may or may not help at least one group of people who create planet mods.

Some Kopernicus users, such as myself, use a program named Gaseous Giganticus to create textures for gas giant planets to use in our mods. Gaseous Giganticus procedurally generates textures by mapping particles to a velocity field that is computed when the program is ran. (Specifically, it generates six cube face textures that can then be stitched together and converted into an equirectangular map.) This is a very crude explanation, and a much more in-depth one can be found on this slideshow.

When running the command to generate the velocity field, there is a certain parameter that can be set, which exports the velocity field data that is computed.
Prior to now, this option was completely useless for developers of Koperncius mods.
However, my question is this: would it be possible to use this velocity data as a simulation of that planet's wind? I have no idea if this could even work, since I have no clue how the velocity data is exported, nor if it only applies to a cubemap, since that is the way the texture is generated.
That being said, I want to hope that this could somehow still be used to create atmospheric data for KWP.

Edited by Maple Kerman
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6 hours ago, Maple Kerman said:

@cmet24I've been thinking about something recently. Normally, it would be difficult to determine the weather data of modded planets.
However, something came to mind that may or may not help at least one group of people who create planet mods.

Some Kopernicus users, such as myself, use a program named Gaseous Giganticus to create textures for gas giant planets to use in our mods. Gaseous Giganticus procedurally generates textures by mapping particles to a velocity field that is computed when the program is ran. (Specifically, it generates six cube face textures that can then be stitched together and converted into an equirectangular map.) This is a very crude explanation, and a much more in-depth one can be found on this slideshow.

When running the command to generate the velocity field, there is a certain parameter that can be set, which exports the velocity field data that is computed.
Prior to now, this option was entirely useless for developers of Koperncius mods.
However, my question is this: would it be possible, at least for those who create textures for their gas giants using GG, to use this velocity data as a simulation of that planet's wind?
I have no idea if this could even work, since I have no clue how the velocity data is exported, nor if it only applies to a cubemap, since that is the way the texture is generated.
That being said, I want to hope that this could somehow still be used to create atmospheric data for KWP, even if it only includes wind.

I don't think GG tries that hard to be all that realistic in its formulation; it mostly just tries to look good. At least, as far as I can tell - I don't use it personally.

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8 hours ago, WarriorSabe said:

I don't think GG tries that hard to be all that realistic in its formulation; it mostly just tries to look good. At least, as far as I can tell - I don't use it personally.

I could just be spouting nonsense; I have no idea how the velocity field works, or if it even applies here. I just had an idea, is all.

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Finally got around to trying this.

I first tried the full version and with the default settings on KWP and I dropped from 57 fps to 11 fps

I reinstalled the lite version and the drop was much smaller 57fps to somewhere between 35 and 47 fps

I run Scatterer and  Astronomer's Visual Pack with 2k Textures as graphics enhancements.

My PC specs are;

Windows 10 64-bit
10th Gen Intel Core i7-10700 ( 8-Core, 16MB Cache,up to 4.8GH z with Intel Turbo Boost Technology)
512GB M.2 PCIe SSD (Boot) + 2T B 7200RPM SATA 6Gb/s (Storage)
NVIDIA(R) GeForce(R) RTX 2070 SUPER(TM) 8GB GDDR6 (OC Ready)

The full version was playable but sluggish, the lite version was very playable and pleasantly surprising. One needs to pay attention to cross winds now as I sent 12 poor passengers and 2 crew to a fiery death during take off. :o

I am also enjoying the extra boost of performance from catching a good tailwind during flight. It works well with my GAP flights, but until I learn to fly better, I suspect a lot of failed contracts are in my future.

Well done you on this @cmet24! :rep::rep::rep::rep::rep:

 

 

 

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Ok for those of you wondering about PC issues, here is a quick benchmark:

My specs:

i7 - 8565u

NVIDIA Geforce MX250

8g RAM

1/2 Terabyte of storage - but this isn't as important

Graphics settings:

- High quality shaders

- Half-Res terrain

- Beautiful rendering quality

 

Graphics mods:

None

 

FPS without KWP

30 - 50 

Depends on the size of the craft and where I am looking. I get more frames looking at space, less looking at kerbin

 

FPS with KWP

15 - 20

Again depends on what I am doing. A moving craft gets less frames while a stationary craft is stable

Also Weather is a bigger hit than Climatology

 

FPS with KWP lite

30 - 40

This is way better and I can play over 30 with the Climatology version on. Weather slows to about 25 - 30.

 

Whatever you did in the last update really helped @cmet24! This mod has now become an indispensable mod for my game!

4 hours ago, Caerfinon said:

I am also enjoying the extra boost of performance from catching a good tailwind during flight. It works well with my GAP flights, but until I learn to fly better, I suspect a lot of failed contracts are in my future.

I love your GAP mod too. Makes me actually get better at planes rather than just using rockets for everything.

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@cmet24 Just noticed it seems, at least in my game, that the real chutes mod doesn't react with the weather. Had a test balloon in the air with a real chute parachute on it, and when I deflated the balloon and popped the chute, it went straight down, despite having a good drift due to windspeed to the south-southwest. Not, complaining, and not your mod, just something I noticed, and didn't know if you've tested wind interactions with real chutes or not. could just be something wrong on my install, could be the way the real chutes mod is made, no idea. If further testing shows the two don't actually work together, might want to put a mention on the first page, to cut down on others saying something to you, as I looked but didn't see any mention of real chutes anywhere.

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Posted (edited)
On 1/7/2021 at 3:59 PM, Maple Kerman said:

@cmet24I've been thinking about something recently. Normally, it would be difficult to determine the weather data of modded planets.
However, something came to mind that may or may not help at least one group of people who create planet mods.

Some Kopernicus users, such as myself, use a program named Gaseous Giganticus to create textures for gas giant planets to use in our mods. Gaseous Giganticus procedurally generates textures by mapping particles to a velocity field that is computed when the program is ran. (Specifically, it generates six cube face textures that can then be stitched together and converted into an equirectangular map.) This is a very crude explanation, and a much more in-depth one can be found on this slideshow.

When running the command to generate the velocity field, there is a certain parameter that can be set, which exports the velocity field data that is computed.
Prior to now, this option was completely useless for developers of Koperncius mods.
However, my question is this: would it be possible to use this velocity data as a simulation of that planet's wind? I have no idea if this could even work, since I have no clue how the velocity data is exported, nor if it only applies to a cubemap, since that is the way the texture is generated.
That being said, I want to hope that this could somehow still be used to create atmospheric data for KWP.

@Maple Kerman I checked out Gaseous Giganticus (GG) and was able to extract the velocity fields. It appears that with the aid of python it should be possible to project a velocity field on a cubemap to an equirectangular grid. If this was accomplished such a velocity field could be incorporated into a mod like KWP that just focused on adding wind. While @WarriorSabe is correct that the velocity fields generated by GG are probably not realistic, they appear to match the visuals pretty well.   

Edited by cmet24
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It would probably be more useful for high altitude wind data as it takes no terrain into consideration but you could lower the bands and speeds right down to simulate crude Stratosphere and Mesopshere movement.

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12 hours ago, cmet24 said:

If this was accomplished such a velocity field could be incorporated into a mod like KWP that just focused on adding wind. While @WarriorSabe is correct that the velocity fields generated by GG are probably not realistic, they appear to match the visuals pretty well.

Good to hear! So I wasn't crazy after all. :P

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Ah yes more ays to professionally obliterate kerbals

In all seriousness, this mod is amazing! wind and soon weather in KSP is an improvement 10-fold! good job about making this and presenting it at that organization thing

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On 1/5/2021 at 9:59 AM, bobby72006 said:

Is this compatible with FAR? (I'm also getting KerBalloons again, I miss that mod deeply and just learned it's been revived through this mod.)

can confirm it works with FAR.. did an interesting crosswind landing earlier.  definitely more realistic/detailed than the old Kerbal Wind mod (which required and only worked with FAR, and let you set static winds only).

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