"There's no easy way to say this."

[Sandworm]

31 minutes ago, RX2000 said:

Having lived & worked in Mexico, I'm guessing that Squad doesnt pay its devs what most people in the developed world would consider a "good" wage. I have professional friends that live in Mexico who only make the equivalent of $500 a month or so. If its true that most of Squad's devs are spread out all over the world, I'm sure they must be doing that job as a side gig, as they almost certainly wouldnt be able to live in a developed country making Mexican wages.

If that is so, then everyone should be talking to lawyers.  Minimum wage laws are near-universally judged according to where the work is done, not where the employer is incorporated.  (Otherwise the laws are meaningless as every company would just setup shells offshore.)  And Squad has 'assets' all over the world through the wide distribution of KSP that can be tied up.  Normally lawyers would have looked into this for each new hire.

[RW-1]

Just now, Bomaye said:

Sorry, they dont have to do anything, assuming that is just what it is, assumptions.

That's true as well, they may not.

Action or inaction will only lead to more assumptions.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Sandworm said:

If that is so, then everyone should be talking to lawyers.  Minimum wage laws are near-universally judged according to where the work is done, not where the employer is incorporated.  (Otherwise the laws are meaningless as every company would just setup shells offshore.)  And Squad has 'assets' all over the world through the wide distribution of KSP that can be tied up.  Normally lawyers would have looked into this for each new hire.

Yeah, international lawsuits are just loads of fun. Especially for private individuals without deep pockets or insurance that covers that kind of thing.

[monstah]

6 hours ago, Wallygator said:

I find it interesting that the reddit post occurred first (Based on my checking - could be wrong), followed an hour later by the announcement of 1.2 release date, then finally the reposting of the reddit onto the forums an hour after that.  Sounds fishy. (Note; If I got the timing wrong due to various systems in various time zones, etc, then I will correct this post - however, the lack of coordination still stands)

If this was an organised preplanned departure of a group of contractors, one possible better way to execute this would have been the 1.2 announcement first, followed quickly by the staff announcement which would have been slightly reworded to link very tightly.

I find the timing strange and terrible, too. You're right on the order of events there. Why would they leak the information before the announcement of the release date, and an official announcement of their leaving? And while I know Squad is known for letting Reddit know anything before the forums, this was not a Squad post, but a post by the former devs. Why didn't they post here instead?

In fact, none of them have posted anything since. @Arsonide, @taniwha, @NathanKell, @sarbian, @Romfarer, @Porkjet and @Mu were online since then, but they haven't said anything (granted, Mu has barely said anything ever...). @Claw hasn't even been around since. That's what worries me the most. Is it something so bad they felt like leaving?  

3 hours ago, katateochi said:

Squad really needs to hire a PR company

I see what you did there, and you are absolutely right.

I'll also take note they're all still marked as "Squad Staff" on the forum.

[Sandworm]

5 minutes ago, Brikoleur said:

Yeah, international lawsuits are just loads of fun. Especially for private individuals without deep pockets or insurance that covers that kind of thing.

In more than a few jurisdictions the lawsuit is brought by the government, not the employee.  And it isn't international.  It's in the local court of the jurisdiction, which the business consented to by hiring there.  A default judgment in somewhere like California or Canada could result in a lien on future sales issued to Valve.  These are not unusual or difficult cases.  All they need to start is a complaint by an aggrieved employee to the local government.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Sandworm

[Kobymaru]

3 minutes ago, monstah said:

Why didn't they post here instead?

I wouldn't either. This is a SQUAD-Managed forum, on SQUAD-Managed Servers with SQUAD-Paid moderators.

Reddit is not exactly an NGO, but they are at least removed from SQUAD and should be impartial to the topic. They would not delete funky posts, so a free discussion is guaranteed.

[klgraham1013]

3 hours ago, katateochi said:

If it is just a matter of contracts ending, then why doesn't someone on the staff confirm that. In fact why haven't we heard a single thing out of any staff or moderator on these threads?

 

Because companies love (in my opinion) unnecessary secrets.  #NDAs

[KerikBalm]

15 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

That's a very good point. Just the other day I mentioned to someone that 1.2 feels like the first update worthy of the 1.0 moniker.

15 hours ago, Codraroll said:

...

1.2 seems to be a point where Kerbal Space Program is a complete base game. Most bugs are cleared, there is enough content to make a meaningful play experience, the code base seems to work well, it's very mod-friendly... basically, everything from here on out would be expansions rather than base game content.

...

I've also had the thought while playing the 1.2 pre-release of: "Now this feels like a 1.0 release"

1.2 has quite a few nice little features. The contracts are more varied (some of those high G tourist things are interesting), what they ask you to do serves more of a purpose (spam sat contracts = excellent relay network, station contracts = places to promoter kerbals, etc), the comm system does make for some really interesting gameplay.

I'm satisfied with it... of course everyone always wants more. I'd just like to congratulate those leaving on the work they've done.

I don't know what the reason for their depature is, but based on the product, they've done a good job.

15 hours ago, Alshain said:

Yeah, I think the Rocket Part Revamp just died right there @IronCretin

Well, they released the pack, added the code to support part upgrades, and did post advertizedments for hiring... I imagine that they are going to have 1 more update to make use of these rocket parts and upgrade system that they've paid for.

[theend3r]

Noooooooo. Just when I thought it's going to be pretty difficult to make this day any worse.

[Tex_NL]

16 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

I'm surprised that this was posted on Reddit an hour ago and hasn't been reposted here yet.

...

I am not at all surprised this was posted on Reddit and not here. I am even less surprised there has of yet been no official reply. It looks a lot like it is Squad policy to ignore the majority of the community and post news last where it matters most.

I still believe in KSP but I lost my faith in Squad long ago. And things like this do not help.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Tex_NL

[Stoney3K]

The reason these devs left may be a lot simpler, if their contracts aren't renewed because they are not fluent in Spanish and became too expensive for SQUAD because they work abroad and not in Mexico.

[shynung]

I really wish we can buy the KSP franchise and hire someone passionate to keep it running. Someone like Star Citizen's Chris Roberts.

[theend3r]

6 minutes ago, Stoney3K said:

The reason these devs left may be a lot simpler, if their contracts aren't renewed because they are not fluent in Spanish and became too expensive for SQUAD because they work abroad and not in Mexico.

I don't think that's the case. It's probably the other way around.

Anyway, I don't have the latest version installed but would someone be willing to make a challenge where people have to send them off (into the void beyond the Kerbol system) in the most spectacular way?

[NuclearMikenetic]

10 hours ago, klesh said:

Its like the management over at Squad forgot to add parachutes.  

And solar panels. And a pilot. And I'm pretty sure I saw oxidizer tanks for an ion engine... yikes

[Red Iron Crown]

23 minutes ago, Kobymaru said:

I wouldn't either. This is a SQUAD-Managed forum, on SQUAD-Managed Servers with SQUAD-Paid moderators.

Bolded part is inaccurate. The moderators on the forum here are all unpaid volunteers, and we certainly would not censor non-rulebreaking content for some corporate agenda. 

[NuclearMikenetic]

26 minutes ago, Tex_NL said:

I am not at all surprised this was posted on Reddit and not here. I am even less surprised there has of yet been no official reply. It looks a lot like it is Squad policy to ignore the majority of the community and post news last where it matters most.

I still believe in KSP but I lost my faith in Squad long ago. And things like this do not help.

There is a post somewhere by a squad dude acknowledging the Dev exodus.  Had to dig around for it last night,  but it's out there. Should have been in the Dev note though... something like the Dev team leaving certainly belongs in a weekly note... about devs 

 

I think the general consensus is KSP is solid gold while squad...

theyre the awkward ugly goose that laid the egg

Edited October 5, 2016 by NuclearMikenetic

[Kobymaru]

11 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Bolded part is inaccurate. The moderators on the forum here are all unpaid volunteers, and we certainly would not censor non-rulebreaking content for some corporate agenda. 

Glad to hear that, but I think that SQUAD and the corporate agenda still has the last word on what content stays or goes on this forum. Maybe they wanted to post somewhere, where their post would be untouchable by squad. Or maybe I'm just having one of my tinfoil-hat days

Edited October 5, 2016 by Kobymaru

[monstah]

38 minutes ago, Kobymaru said:

I wouldn't either. This is a SQUAD-Managed forum, on SQUAD-Managed Servers with SQUAD-Paid moderators.

Reddit is not exactly an NGO, but they are at least removed from SQUAD and should be impartial to the topic. They would not delete funky posts, so a free discussion is guaranteed.

That only makes sense if you presume something bad happened in there (which is kinda my point). Otherwise it's just goodbye, I see no problem doing it on a SQUAD-managed forum.

[Kertech]

We know nothing currently. Back up your saves and a build of the game you like and see where the rest of the game goes. 

Relax and see where the wind blows!

[Superfluous J]

12 minutes ago, Kobymaru said:

Glad to hear that, but I think that SQUAD and the corporate agenda still has the last word on what content stays or goes on this forum. Maybe they wanted to post somewhere, where their post would be untouchable by squad. Or maybe I'm just having one of my tinfoil-hat days

When I think of Squad's "corporate agenda" I am more thinking of Val's face when you reach orbit, than I am Montgomery Burns plotting the destruction of Springfield.

[Guest]

Firstly thanks for all the work these people put into KSP, its much appreciated.

Secondly, SQUAD put your cards on the table, tell your customers what plans if any you have for the future of KSP, don't leave people hanging, I invested in a game before that had great ideas and plans only to watch it fade away. People paid good money for KSP. Just tell us what your plans are after 1.2 which really should have been a 1.0 release in my opinion.

[CobraA1]

24 minutes ago, NuclearMikenetic said:

50 minutes ago, Tex_NL said:

I am not at all surprised this was posted on Reddit and not here. I am even less surprised there has of yet been no official reply. It looks a lot like it is Squad policy to ignore the majority of the community and post news last where it matters most.

I still believe in KSP but I lost my faith in Squad long ago. And things like this do not help.

There is a post somewhere by a squad dude acknowledging the Dev exodus.  Had to dig around for it last night,  but it's out there. Should have been in the Dev note though... something like the Dev team leaving certainly belongs in a weekly note... about devs 

Right here.

[neamerjell]

16 hours ago, Galileo said:

Maybe 1.2 is the end product ( a few patches and fixes here and there after it releases)  but maybe it's really just done?  It's sad but I understand money doesn't grow on trees. Just blind speculation 

This is entirely possible. However, why force NDAs on the former employees? What do the remnants of Squad have to hide? Speculation runs rampant on the internet (not just Reddit) that they were all but slave labor by US standards; 12-14 hour days for a measly $100 a month. There are perfectly legal and legitimate jobs to be had in the US where, in under 8 hours, someone can earn $100 in just tips alone.

As much as I hate to say it, I think KSP might be done, not only in the sense of being a finished product, but also in the sense that it is now "old hat". I have seen a major drop in the number of people streaming KSP on Twitch. The buzz is gone. The hype train has reached its final stop.

The game's development of late has mostly consisted of bug fixes and the assimilation of mods into the stock code. Filter Extensions, now stock, Quick Search, also now stock, SpacePlane+, yep, that's stock too along with numerous other mods. The latest addition appears to be a polished version of Remote Tech.

In my opinion, the mods have always been the best part of this game. The only major barrier to extensively modding the game has been the lack of 64 bit support. Once that was finally included, the game really began to feel like a finished product. This was also the beginning of the end for KSP. The fans finally have what they have been clamoring for.

I and many others truly hope that this is not the end, but the beginning of a new chapter for KSP. Perhaps the mass exodus was intentionally making way for the infusion of new blood in Squad and will lead to new and exciting things in the future. We shall see.

 

[Mycroft]

1 hour ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Bolded part is inaccurate. The moderators on the forum here are all unpaid volunteers, and we certainly would not censor non-rulebreaking content for some corporate agenda. 

I wholeheartedly wish I could agree. I know the moderators are unpaid, and I fondly remember the days when I liked SQUAD, and trusted the forum moderators.... 

 

Sadly, things have changed, and I can no longer say that. Although I personally trust @Red Iron Crown and a few others on the mod team, in general, I can't truthfully say that I trust the mod team to be un-biased. The fact that I saw posts about it get deleted several times, until one got too prominent to silence quietly, didn't help. Then SQUAD posted a 1.2 hype post, almost as if hoping to generate more hype about 1.2, and overshadow the fact that the dev team was leaving because of bad working conditions. But it seems that once they saw that no amount of hype would distract from this problem, they finally released a hollow-sounding reply and thank you note to the departing devs. The note itself didn't sound hollow, it didn't need to. The timing speaks more than SQUAD could ever say. I truly love KSP. I only wish I could say the same of the company that made it. The hype train has ground to a stop. There are those of us who heard the brakes squealing a long time ago. Some only noticed the deceleration that came later on. Some, like me, wanted to believe the hype train was just getting started. I believed the game had a huge future ahead of it. Then, the stop took those of us who believed, or wanted to believe it, by surprise. Come to realize, it shouldn't have surprised anyone. Every day, companies pass up genuinely good business ideas for flashier and less high quality and less profitable ones. It's sad, but true. This was coming a long time ago.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Mycroft

[Red Iron Crown]

6 minutes ago, Mycroft said:

Although I personally trust @Red Iron Crown and a few others on the mod team, in general, I can't truthfully say that I trust the mod team to be un-biased. The fact that I saw posts about it get deleted several times, until one got too prominent to silence quietly, didn't help.

No moderator touched any posts on this subject. Our job is to enforce the forum rules and nothing more; if asked to censor for an agenda I think half or more of the mod team would resign, frankly speaking I would if so asked.