[1.12.1] JNSQ [0.10.0] [23 Sept 2021]

[OhioBob]

47 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Anyone who is will and able to produce/update scatterer and EVE configs is certainly welcome to do so. Configs are usually not restrictive licensed (except when finely crafted PQSMod/terrain topology settings are concerned). Visual mod configs are not my territory but may be @OhioBob's. Do alert us if someone makes it so and we could arrange a release just for that (probably).

I still haen't figured out the newer versions of Scatterer.  It's probably easy enough to learn but I just haven't been motivated to do so.  Updating scatterer is really the one thing left to do that is keeping me from releasing a JNSQ update.  If somebody comes up with some configs that look good and are bug-free, I'd be happy to incorporate them into JNSQ and make a release.  I didn't know EVE required any updates, but if so, I can incoporate it as well.  (I do know about volumetric clouds, but I wasn't planning on doing anything with that.)

[OrbitalManeuvers]

7 hours ago, Nikodga said:

I've installed all the dependencies, the issue is that they are NOT being placed for an unknow reason,

hey my apologies for totally spacing on jnsq's existing configs for statics ... i have other stuff placing statics and completely blanked on what comes from where. Anyway, are you able to use the KK editor by pressing Ctrl+K in the flight scene? If that doesn't work then you have a more general KK problem probably not related to JNSQ

[Nikodga]

4 hours ago, OrbitalManeuvers said:

hey my apologies for totally spacing on jnsq's existing configs for statics ... i have other stuff placing statics and completely blanked on what comes from where. Anyway, are you able to use the KK editor by pressing Ctrl+K in the flight scene? If that doesn't work then you have a more general KK problem probably not related to JNSQ

It doesnt work, i've read in KK post that some issue is making the editor not work in the lastest version of KSP

[panarchist]

On 5/8/2024 at 10:09 PM, Nikodga said:

It doesnt work, i've read in KK post that some issue is making the editor not work in the lastest version of KSP

The editor works fine with the latest version of KK and the latest version of KSP (1.12.5) Make sure you're using version v1.8.6.1 of KK.

[LilTajine]

On 3/17/2024 at 9:50 AM, Krazy1 said:

This works - thanks for posting. (I only checked Moho)

This sort of works... clouds work once the install folder name is corrected and they look good, more detailed and realistic, but arouras and lightning are missing. Maybe @Coldrifting can add those

hey, could you perhaps help me? im having issues with the volumetric clouds and scatterer in general, and the patch didnt seem to work correctly, could you guide me through the install and the name correction? thx in advance

[Krazy1]

On 5/14/2024 at 5:44 PM, LilTajine said:

im having issues with the volumetric clouds and scatterer in general, and the patch didnt seem to work correctly, could you guide me through the install and the name correction?

I'm only using basic Scatterer 0.0838 from CKAN, not the early access volumetric clouds version. Link to my KSP install notes. Scatterer is at the bottom. Hope that helps.

[1straycat]

I've noticed some low res terrain around cliffs. https://imgur.com/a/y8NlS8E
Other terrain looks great (2nd pic foreground), and from a distance it all looks great (3rd pic), but it seems like the rougher terrain is stuck at a lower res. Screenshots are from Dak but I also noticed this on Gilly. I'm coming back to the game after a bit of a break so I can't remember, is this normal?

[zakkpaz]

Does this mod work with the latest version of Kopernicus?

[R-T-B]

5 hours ago, zakkpaz said:

Does this mod work with the latest version of Kopernicus?

It should.

[theJesuit]

7 hours ago, zakkpaz said:

Does this mod work with the latest version of Kopernicus?

It does for me!

[WolfieKSP]

On 9/23/2021 at 11:32 PM, OhioBob said:

Further Explanation of Rescale mods...

The optional Rescale mods are designed to allow JNSQ, GPP and GEP to be installed either together or individually in a variety of scales.  These mods work without the use of Sigma Dimensions and should never used in combination with Sigma Dimensions.

The scales are defined as follows:

• 1x – 1/10th real scale, or approximately stock size. This is the native size of GPP and GEP.
• 2.5x – 1/4th real scale, or approximately 2.5x stock size. This is the native size of JNSQ.
• 10x – Real scale, or approximately 10x stock size.

(Note that stock KSP is actually closer to 1/11th scale.)

JNSQ can only exist as the primary star system, i.e. the planetary system orbiting the central star.  No other options exist for the installation of JNSQ.

GPP can be installed as the primary star system only if JNSQ is not present.  It can also be installed as a secondary star system to either JNSQ or GEP, using the optional mod GPP_Secondary.

GEP can be installed as the primary star system only if JNSQ is not present, using the optional mod GEP_Primary.  It can also be installed as a secondary star system to either JNSQ or GPP, or as a tertiary star system if both JNSQ and GPP are present.

In summary, the following are possible:

• JNSQ
• JNSQ + GEP
• JNSQ + GPP + GPP_Secondary
• JNSQ + GPP + GPP_Secondary + GEP
• GPP
• GPP + GEP
• GEP + GEP_Primary
• GEP + GEP_Primary + GPP + GPP_Secondary

To be installed together, all planet packs must be sized to the same scale.

Example #1

We want to install all three planet packs sized to 2.5x scale.  Since JNSQ already exists at 2.5x, it does not require resizing.  However, GPP and GEP are both natively 1x, therefore we must install the 2.5x version of GPP_Rescale and GEP_Rescale to match the size of JNSQ.  We install the following mods:

JNSQ + GPP + GPP_Secondary + GPP_Rescale (2.5x) + GEP + GEP_Rescale (2.5x)

Example #2

We want to install all three planet packs sized to 1x scale.  GPP and GEP already exist at 1x, so resizing is not require.  However, JNSQ must be resized to 1x scale to match the smaller size of GPP and GEP, therefore we must install the 1x version of JNSQ_Rescale.  We install the following mods:

JNSQ + JNSQ_Rescale (1x) + GPP + GPP_Secondary + GEP

Example #3

We want to install all three planet packs sized to 10x scale.  Since none of the planet packs natively exist at 10x scale, all three must be resized using the 10x version of their Rescale mod.  We install the following mods:

JNSQ + JNSQ_Rescale (10x) + GPP + GPP_Secondary + GPP_Rescale (10x) + GEP + GEP_Rescale (10x)

It is also recommended that you delete the Kopernicus cache when using Rescale for the first time.  These are the *.bin files located within each planet pack's Cache folder.  This should be done anytime the size of a planet pack is changed, but needs to be done only one time per size change.

It is also recommended that the DSN modifier in game difficulty be set to a value appropriate for the size of the solar system.  The following are some suggested guidelines:

• If JNSQ is installed:  set DSN modifier to 1.6 for 1x scale, or 4 for 2.5x scale, or 16 for 10x scale.
• If GPP is installed as primary:  set DSN modifier to 1 for 1x scale, or 2.5 for 2.5x scale, or 10 for 10x scale.
• If GEP is installed as primary:  set DSN modifier to 1 for 1x and 2.5x scales, or 4 for 10x scale.
   

PartRebalancer10x

PartRebalancer10x is an optional mod that makes changes to the mass of parts and the density of propellants to give rockets more life-like mass ratios so they can attain the higher performance necessary when playing at real scale (10x).  It is provided as a simple alternative to using mods such as Realism Overhaul, ROMini, or SMURFF.  While PartRebalancer10x certainly doesn't provide the same level of realism as Realism Overhaul, it does allow you to jump in and immediately start playing at 10x scale with parts properly balanced for the task.  PartRebalancer10x is an ideal stepping stone for first-timers to 10x scale who want to experiment before making the jump to Realism Overhaul.  We recommend the addition of BetterSRBs for even more like-life solid rocket performance.  PartRebalancer10x is not recommended for scales smaller than 10x.

 

Hi, is there a 10x rescale dV map? 

[bigyihsuan]

5 hours ago, WolfieKSP said:

Hi, is there a 10x rescale dV map? 

It's simple to calculate the dV needed for a rescaled system, so you don't need a dV map. The formula for this is

new_scale_dv = sqrt(new_scale / old_scale) * old_scale_dv

So, for JNSQ rescaled to 10x from 2.7x, the dV for, say, launching to LKO, is sqrt(10/2.7)*4500, which is about 8660 m/s.

In most cases it's scaling from stock scale which is 1x, which essentially drops it from the equation. In your case though, you'd need to find the ratio between the new scale and the old scale (compared to stock) to get roughly the correct m/s of dV.

[OhioBob]

22 hours ago, WolfieKSP said:

Hi, is there a 10x rescale dV map? 

Just double everything in the regular JNSQ dV map.

16 hours ago, bigyihsuan said:

So, for JNSQ rescaled to 10x from 2.7x, the dV for, say, launching to LKO, is sqrt(10/2.7)*4500, which is about 8660 m/s.

That's not exactly right.  JNSQ presumes 10x is real life scale, and JNSQ is built to 1/4th real scale.  So everything should really by multiplied by a factor of SQRT(4) = 2.

While that should be exact for stuff like interplanetary trajectories, the launch numbers will typically be a little less than double the dV map.  That's because not everything about launch is scaled up to 4 times the size.  For example, we are generally not launcing into orbits that are 4 times higher.

Edited May 24 by OhioBob

[zakkpaz]

@OhioBob I’ve been trying to see if I can can patch the volumetric cloud version of EVE to work with JNSQ, I’m not sure if you’re the one in charge now but Galileo seems to have abandoned the mod.

if you are the one to ask’ I’d like permission to reuse some files from the mod if I decide to post it, stuff like putting Eve’s cloud texture on Huygen, editing scatterer configs, etc.

i would not be editing the texture files themselves.

Edited June 1 by zakkpaz

[OhioBob]

2 hours ago, zakkpaz said:

@OhioBob I’ve been trying to see if I can can patch the volumetric cloud version of EVE to work with JNSQ, I’m not sure if you’re the one in charge now but Galileo seems to have abandoned the mod.

if you are the one to ask’ I’d like permission to reuse some files from the mod if I decide to post it, stuff like putting Eve’s cloud texture on Huygen, editing scatterer configs, etc.

i would not be editing the texture files themselves.

While it's true I've taken over most things related to JNSQ in Galileo's absence, I'm afraid giving premission to use one of the textures is something I'm not comfortable doing.  The textures where all made by Galileo and I think only he can give premission to use them.  It's not up to me.

If your patch must have JNSQ installed to work, why must you repackage any of the textures?  You should be able to use the texture by setting the path in your mod to look to where the texture resides in JNSQ.

[zakkpaz]

5 hours ago, OhioBob said:

If your patch must have JNSQ installed to work, why must you repackage any of the textures?  You should be able to use the texture by setting the path in your mod to look to where the texture resides in JNSQ.

I think i misspoke, I won’t be repackaging them but the patch does rely on the textures, I’m using the Eve one on Huygen for example. But I would be repackaging highly edited versions of the Scatterer configs

[OhioBob]

33 minutes ago, zakkpaz said:

I think i misspoke, I won’t be repackaging them but the patch does rely on the textures, I’m using the Eve one on Huygen for example. But I would be repackaging highly edited versions of the Scatterer configs

OK, I misunderstood.  I think what you describe would be OK. Writing your own configs or patches to JNSQ I don't think would violate the license.  (A highly edited scatterer config is really just a new scatterer config.)

[MOPC]

On 6/2/2024 at 12:06 AM, OhioBob said:

If your patch must have JNSQ installed to work, why must you repackage any of the textures?  You should be able to use the texture by setting the path in your mod to look to where the texture resides in JNSQ.

Glad to see you guys bringing up this topic here, since I too have been working on a personal JNSQ + EVE volumetric clouds compatibility patch lately, and considered asking you for an upload permission later on if it ever gets "looking good and bug free".

I got a question about sort of an edge case for what you discussed. Would it be okay for a public release of JNSQ + EVE patch (especially if you won't find it good enough or your time won't permit to incorporate it into main JNSQ package) to use your textures as base, but edit them significantly in account for new EVE features? Answering the question quoted: reusing the single original texture as is doesn't yield good results, as all that volumetric stuff works quite differently to 2D clouds and needs more data in textures.

That means with said patch the clouds layout, general visual design all stay pretty much the same as were made by Galileo, but textures are going to be edited, renamed and reassigned in configs to work as cloud coverage/type/weather maps for EVE. Obviously, I'm not going to take any credit for original textures, all configs will be of my own, and said mod won't work properly without JNSQ as it's fine tuned for it specifically. Would that be possible?

@zakkpaz would you be interested in combining our efforts, if permitted? I ported Scatterer configs to new version, and currently am finishing Kerbin clouds galore and got Duna somewhat done, but didn't do much work on gas giants or other planets yet.

Spoiler

 

Edited June 4 by MOPC

[Infinite Aerospace]

48 minutes ago, MOPC said:

Glad to see you guys bringing up this topic here, since I too have been working on a personal JNSQ + EVE volumetric clouds compatibility patch lately, and considered asking you for an upload permission later on if it ever gets "looking good and bug free".

I got a question about sort of an edge case for what you discussed. Would it be okay for a public release of JNSQ + EVE patch (especially if you won't find it good enough or your time won't permit to incorporate it into main JNSQ package) to use your textures as base, but edit them significantly in account for new EVE features? Answering the question quoted: reusing the single original texture as is doesn't yield good results, as all that volumetric stuff works quite differently to 2D clouds and needs more data in textures.

That means with said patch the clouds layout, general visual design all stay pretty much the same as were made by Galileo, but textures are going to be edited, renamed and reassigned in configs to work as cloud coverage/type/weather maps for EVE. Obviously, I'm not going to take any credit for original textures, all configs will be of my own, and said mod won't work properly without JNSQ as it's fine tuned for it specifically. Would that be possible?

@zakkpaz would you be interested in combining our efforts, if permitted? I ported Scatterer configs to new version, and currently am finishing Kerbin clouds galore and got Duna somewhat done, but didn't do much work on gas giants or other planets yet.

  Hide contents

 

This right here would be amazing, I still stand by JNSQ being one of the best planet packs.

[DeadJohn]

58 minutes ago, MOPC said:

textures are going to be edited

The top post includes JNSQ license details. It's a no-derivatives license which would forbid you from modifying a JNSQ texture.

You might be able to get around this by creating your own new texture (from scratch rather than editing JNSQ art), use the same filename as JNSQ, then supply your textures as an independent mod that gets installed by overwriting some JNSQ files.

Other posters may have better ideas to accomplish what you want within the license constraints.

[MOPC]

47 minutes ago, DeadJohn said:

The top post includes JNSQ license details. It's a no-derivatives license which would forbid you from modifying a JNSQ texture.

Other posters may have better ideas to accomplish what you want within the license constraints.

Exactly why I asked the developers personally. Licenses are surely to be respected (a least, for public releases), but from my experience modding other games and having my stuff updated/reworked by community after I had decided to step away, they're usually posted rather to protect your work from unauthorised and harmful actions (paid reuploads, unfair reuse etc.), while fan-made updates and expansions often rely on devs' worded permission and can be discussed.

If I were to officially make a JNSQ update, I'd say working from original textures would be a respectful and favorable a way to go. That'd ensure the original planets design and stylistic choices have better chance of being preserved. Like, I cannot know if Galileo thoughtfully put that one specific hurricane on Kerbin and if that has any personal meaning to the developers.

[Constel4cion]

On 3/17/2024 at 2:50 AM, Krazy1 said:

This sort of works... clouds work once the install folder name is corrected and they look good, more detailed and realistic, but arouras and lightning are missing. Maybe @Coldrifting can add those

Sorry bud, can you please tell me what folder name needs  a rename?

[zakkpaz]

On 6/4/2024 at 12:36 PM, MOPC said:

@zakkpaz would you be interested in combining our efforts, if permitted? I ported Scatterer configs to new version, and currently am finishing Kerbin clouds galore and got Duna somewhat done, but didn't do much work on gas giants or other planets yet.

Honestly I'd only slow you down. I'm never done anything like this before and am only doing it because I figured whatever I could bodge together would be better than nothing.

Good luck to you though

[MOPC]

13 hours ago, zakkpaz said:

Honestly I'd only slow you down. I'm never done anything like this before and am only doing it because I figured whatever I could bodge together would be better than nothing.

Good luck to you though

Oh don't talk that way about yourself! I'm in exactly identical situation, my KSP modding experience is basically just a couple MM patches and reading the forum, learning it all as I make stuff.

[zakkpaz]

@MOPC all I’ve really done is edit Blackrack’s stock configs to not look terrible, I’m willing to try collaborating depending on your plans for this.

 

My main focus right now is to just get the inner planets working, I’ve made so few changes to Blackrack’s config’s I’m hesitant to include them in my first release. I’m mostly ignoring the Scatterer configs for now simply because I don’t want to have learn the two mods at the same time, if you want to work together that’s what I really need help with right now.

 

I’ve switched Eve’s cloud texture to its JNSQ one, and I’m trying to make them a particular shade of purpley tan, ever have an ice latte with ube? Like that but a little lighter.

 

I decided against using JNSQ’s cloud texture for Kerbin because of its hurricanes. I think it would ruin the effect a bit for someone to descend into a hurricane only for it to turn into a light rain as they got close.

 

I’ve changed the color of Duna’s dust storms to fit the JNSQ surface color, I’m not entirely satisfied with the look and my try making them lighter. I’m going to swap in the JNSQ clouds at some point, but that’s more than a simple edit.

 

I don’t think Leythe or Jool need any substantial changes from Blackrack’s version, but I wasn’t a huge fan of how dreary the JNSQ versions of them were. The only big thing is Leythe’s volcano plum layer need’s to be redone because of JNSQ’s new topography.

 

The biggest problem I’m having is trying to figure out how to add back the aurora and lightning layers on Eve, Kerbin, Jool, and Lindor. Them and the haze high above Moho may not be possible in this version of the EVE (was the Moho haze even from JNSQ?)

 

Kerbin, Eve, and Laythe have an issue with the cloud texture clipping with mountains etc. I can’t figure out a good fix for this, I don’t like how the obvious solution of  just raising the layer looks, There may be way to flatten the planet in Scatterer, but I’m still trying to figure that out.

 

As for JNSQ’s planets, Huygen is the only one I’ve started on, and it’s in the early stages. I’m trying to match it to my understanding of what Titan is like and have added a thick layer of haze and some low clouds. I intend to make the waves on its oceans high & violent, and add rare but torrential rainstorms. I’m also playing with a second thinner layer of haze at a higher altitude. I’m not sure about lightning, in addition to the storms I may have dry lighting at higher frequencies than the actual rain storms just for the ambience.

 

I have a plan for Lindor but it poses a problem for me due to my lack of drawing ability, I want it to be an analogue of Neptune, which will require nearly the same level of detail as Jool. I’d like to add two thick cloud layers with a large separation between them; the first layer will have anticyclone’s/Great Dark Spot’s creating massive holes up to clear sky, large thunderheads on top, and constant “diamond” rain, the second layer will be a darkly colored maelstrom. I don’t fully understand the limitations of the mods weather system and the anticyclone’s may not be possible. More importantly If I can’t get someone who can draw on board I’ll just end up puting a single thick cloud layer using the JNSQ texture

 

The rest planets and moons only need small changes to their scatterer configs to make them work right with the newer version of the mod. I’m considering adding small effects (dust storms, cryo/regular volcanic plumes, etc.) to some of them after I review the lore blurbs but they all seem to have atmospheres to thin for anything interesting.