Kerbal Space Program 1.10.1 is live!

[RealKerbal3x]

I'm not going to disagree - a primarily bug-fixing release would be nice. No new features, just the stomping of a ton of bugs and maybe a few part retextures thrown in for fun. I'm all for useful and interesting new stuff but I think it's important that the developers have a solid base to build those new features on.

So, @St4rdust @Just Jim @RoverDude @nestor a bug-exterminating update? Pretty please?

[steve_v]

3 hours ago, Deddly said:

Hold in there, I expect they'll get there in the end, just in a different order of priority than yours or mine. 

I "held in there" all the way from 1.4  to 1.8 waiting for them to fix the input regressions, only to find they'd gone and broken another piece of basic application functionality, namely the ability to save and apply graphics settings, of all ridiculous things.
Were now at 1.10.1, and It's still not fixed. This isn't a "pet bug", it's being systematically treated like a third-class citizen and left to put up with a broken product for purchasing the game on one of the officially supported platforms. It's the same crap treatment console customers keep getting, and it's simply not good enough.
These are not obscure corner cases, and they're not third-party porting problems. They're regressions in basic functionality that Squad completely ignores, in the last case for over a year and a half, while releasing multiple major content updates.

The fuel transfer regression is another matter (largely because it's a new regression), and you'd be hard pressed to play the game for any length of time on any platform and not be screwed over by it. It's not just a minor irritant either, and releasing a hotfix that doesn't even try to address that one is properly incomprehensible.

Edited September 3, 2020 by steve_v
So many bugs, it's hard to keep my versions straight. Joysticks back with 1.8, but broken shaders and settings.

[Deddly]

Unfortunate choice of words on my part there, @steve_v, I apologise. 

[Serenity]

I am sure they gonna fix them, i understand it takes time, maybe more than usual but i am ok to wait as long the biggest ones are squashed.

Unfortunately most of the playerbase are in older versions of the game.

Thats extremely bad for all of us, the bugs take a while to get spotted and the community fixes are slower.

I see some examples of mods fixing constant gliding, texture flickering etc or just bypassing bugs like the fuel one.

I havent played for a week now since i am kinda in my limit of every ''pet'' bug i meet every 5 minutes.

Even if they were small bugs, which they re not, they re so often that only using an older version with mods gives you some peace of mind.

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Boyster

[steve_v]

2 minutes ago, Boyster said:

they re so often that only using an older version with mods gives you some peace of mind.

I know plenty of people still running 1.3.1.

For myself, I'd really just like to be able to enjoy the game I backed in alpha, with both of the DLCs I purchased, with my HOTAS, and without a bunch of ridiculous bugs.

<1.6.x has no Breaking Ground. I'd like to play the DLC I bought.
1.4.x - 1.7.x has broken joystick support. I fly planes a lot, and I want the functionality the game used to have to actually work.
1.8.x fixed joystick support, but settings are reset every time you start the game and the atmosphere shaders are all screwed up.
1.9.x fixed the atmo, but didn't fix settings not applying. It also introduced various exotic mod-borking bugs relating to prefab resources and symmetry.
1.10.x still didn't fix settings not applying, and additionally borked resource transfer.
All of the above still have craft sliding around, wheels bouncing all over the place, parts displacing on restarting the game, and other ancient and infuriating bugs to numerous to list.

So, which release of this lovely, polished, not at all perpetual-beta game should I play? Should I wait for the next release, get all my mods sorted out, then discover there's yet another new and idiotic regression?
Oh, the suspense, what will be broken this time?

[DoToH]

On 9/3/2020 at 4:40 PM, Boyster said:

I am sure they gonna fix them

I am not.

 

On 9/3/2020 at 5:07 PM, steve_v said:

1.6.x has no Breaking Ground. I'd like to play the DLC I bought.
1.4.x - 1.7.x has broken joystick support. I fly planes a lot, and I want the functionality the game used to have to actually work.
1.8.x fixed joystick support, but settings are reset every time you start the game and the atmosphere shaders are all screwed up.
1.9.x fixed the atmo, but didn't fix settings not applying. It also introduced various exotic mod-borking bugs relating to prefab resources and symmetry.
1.10.x still didn't fix settings not applying, and additionally borked resource transfer.
All of the above still have craft sliding around, wheels bouncing all over the place, parts displacing on restarting the game, and other ancient and infuriating bugs to numerous to list.

So, which release of this lovely, polished, not at all perpetual-beta game should I play? Should I wait for the next release, get all my mods sorted out, then discover there's yet another new and idiotic regression?
Oh, the suspense, what will be broken this time?

^^ This. 

I don't play this "forever-early-access" game any more. From 0.18 to 1.7.3 I played each and every update. Thousands of hours played. Never got bored. The only thing that made me left the game was the endless wait for the next update to fix one or another bug, the constant hold, wait, before starting my new mission, base or whatever, hoping that there will be a stable version some day that can be used to play a very long save. That version never came. And 1.7.3 is the last version I installed.

I seriously doubt I would play this game any more, still I have it installed and come to the forums once in a while, and with each new update, hoping for the best and finding the same as before, just new bugs. It's sad to say that about a game I recommended to everyone I know. Now I think I recommended a never-ending project of a game.

The number in the version before the first dot doesn't make the game finished. For every single minor feature or cosmetic update we get a bunch of new bugs and some old ones revived. All those bugs mentioned here before (and some others) prove one thing: KSP is a (bad) beta. The fact that many people are still playing 1.3.1 should have made SQUAD think seriously about it, but they chose this insane strategy. Even games developed by only ONE person get more hotfixes for critical bugs than this one. Why? I don't know. And I don't care anymore.

KSP2 will be finished before KSP, despite the delays, and by the time, as KSP buglist is constantly growing, KSP2 will surely be less buggy. If I have to wait, I'd better wait for other product, developed by other team. Maybe they have better QA and bug fixing people/skills/will/whatever. Meanwhile, I will be around here, reading changelogs about new useless parts nobody asked for and workarounds for partialy solving new gamebreaking bugs. It's funnier when you don't play the game.

Edited September 7, 2020 by DoToH

[Guest]

the current state of KSP:

it all started going downhill after the original devs and staff left

Edited September 7, 2020 by Guest

[decimal-simplex]

On 9/3/2020 at 4:42 AM, Deddly said:

Yeah I do know the feeling. I too have my "pet bugs" that seriously affect my gameplay, and I know what it's like when others don't seem to think it's an issue. Hold in there, I expect they'll get there in the end, just in a different order of priority than yours or mine. 

That seems optimistic. There are a finite number of releases left (we don't know what the number is, but they are not going to continue to support this product forever especially once KSP2 is released) and if the release cadence is "major release packed with gimmicks and new game-breaking bugs, followed by a single point release that fixes some of those bugs and maybe a couple long-standing ones," then what we have to look forward to once they have wound down KSP is clear: a game with a bunch of gimmicky stuff that's kinda nice but doesn't add a lot, along with a ton of unresolved bugs that will never be fixed.

Reminds me a bit of Minecraft, actually, although they never did wind it down they just keep on adding more crap and ignoring the ever-growing backlog of issues.

Edited September 8, 2020 by decimal-simplex

[Cattette]

3 minutes ago, decimal-simplex said:

That seems optimistic. There are a finite number of releases left (we don't know what the number is, but they are not going to continue to support this product forever especially once KSP2 is released) and if the release cadence is "major release packed with gimmicks and new game-breaking bugs, followed by a single point release that fixes some of those bugs and maybe a couple long-standing ones," then what we have to look forward to once they have wound down KSP is clear: a game with a bunch gimmicky stuff that's kinda nice but doesn't add a lot, along with a ton of unresolved bugs that will never be fixed.

I think you're being too optimistic about KSP2. There's no guarantee that it'll replace the original, it might flop just like other space titles published by relatively small studios tend to do.

[decimal-simplex]

1 minute ago, Cattette said:

I think you're being too optimistic about KSP2. There's no guarantee that it'll replace the original, it might flop just like other space titles published by relatively small studios tend to do.

My point is only that support for KSP will start to drop off once KSP2 is released, not that KSP2 will be successful.

To extend my comparison to Minecraft: both it and KSP seem to be in this pattern now where the publisher is focused exclusively on new content that will drive sales and puts fixing the issues that always and inevitably result from that in the long-term, on the back-burner indefinitely. And it sucks because obviously they're never going to just say "it's all content from here on out - we're not doing any bug-fixes, over and above the bare minimum required to avoid a front-page post on Reddit about all the bugs in KSP" and so it's easy to fool yourself into thinking they'll get around to fixing them, as long as you don't look at the bug backlog and ignore that it's steadily growing in length and there is no plan (i.e. no funding, no resources) to address that growth. And the prognosis at that point is not good because, if it does get to the point where the bugs are impacting sales, I promise you that they will not throw more resources at the project at that point - they'll just pack it in.

From a player perspective all you can do at that point is wait for someone else to swoop in and eat their lunch in that niche.

[catloaf]

To point out how bad this is, my friend had a crash in his first day, in a pure stock windows 10 install. And even my heavily modded installs usually only have a few more crashes than his. And we're both playing on modern pc's that easily meet the reccomended requirements. I don't know about you but 1.10 was one of the most unstable releases I've every played on,and 1.10.1 is hardly convincing. Despite the version numbers ksp is really a fully priced early access game with played dlc! Come on squad, NO MORE CONTENT. 1.11 should be the bug update, or else I will probably quit until ksp2.

[bitnick]

I guess the best we can hope for is something like what happened to UFO: Enemy Unknown, another great game plagued by serious bugs. It's been revived and kept alive through OpenXcom, a complete FLOSS rewrite of the engine, but using the original artwork. So if you own the game you can replace the whole codebase with something that actually works (and is up to date) and enjoy the game fully.

[Serenity]

Any news of like an upcoming update?

I haven't played for weeks now, waiting for the fuel bug fix...my save has way too many refueling to just fight through it....

[HansAcker]

5 hours ago, Boyster said:

I haven't played for weeks now, waiting for the fuel bug fix...

For the fuel transfer, the same workaround still applies that helped me in earlier versions where interrupted transfers wouldn't resumed: open the PAW of another part containing some resources (or just quickly mouse over the resource panel). That resets the fuel transfer.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2020 by HansAcker

[Serenity]

3 hours ago, HansAcker said:

For the fuel transfer, the same workaround still applies that helped me in earlier versions where interrupted transfers wouldn't resumed: open the PAW of another part containing some resources (or just quickly mouse over the resource panel). That resets the fuel transfer.

Wow tnx...that actually works and its easy!

Edited September 11, 2020 by Boyster

[VoidSquid]

Hey @UomoCapra,

Any word about an upcoming 1.10.2 patch, yes/no? 

You guys been pretty quiet about this topic  

Edited September 15, 2020 by VoidSquid

[Yellowburn10]

I keep seeing responses for this thread, but the title's cut off at the end, so it just say "Kerbal Space Program 1.10..." so I never know if it's an actual 1.10.2 patch or just this thread again. Why you gotta keep giving my hopes up like that?

[Cyne]

I personally don't care about new content and stuff - Mods already satisfy my needs. What I DO care about however, is performance and bugs. 

With every update, something gets broken

[MechBFP]

3 hours ago, Cyne said:

I personally don't care about new content and stuff - Mods already satisfy my needs. What I DO care about however, is performance and bugs. 

With every update, something gets broken

Welcome to software development. It’s just a fact of life with software. When it comes to non-trivial software no matter what you do, no matter how hard you try, eliminating bugs always causes others to appear. It is practically impossible to eliminate all bugs. 
The end goal is to eliminate the most common and problematic ones and leave all the outlier ones that people rarely run into and can easily avoid or work around.

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by MechBFP

[steve_v]

53 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

When it comes to non-trivial software no matter what you do, no matter how hard you try, eliminating bugs always causes others to appear.

Sure, if your code is an unmaintainable mess.
A great many "non-trivial" software projects manage relatively bug-free releases, just not this one. Somehow they even manage to ship .0 releases free of obvious bugs most of the time... Perhaps it's by magic?
I'm using a relatively bug-free web browser on a relatively bug-free operating system running a relatively bug-free kernel right now in fact. How strange.
 

53 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

The end goal is to eliminate the most common and problematic ones and leave all the outlier ones that people rarely run into and can easily avoid or work around.

An end goal that KSP does not appear to be coming any closer to...
7+ years in "common" and "problematic" bugs like the awful wheel model, craft sliding around, craft spawning underground or far above the surface, kerbals sliding on ladders, flickering orbits, shifting orbits, pervasive collision detection jank, recurring fairing and cargobay bugs, parts displacing permanently on reload, garbage collection stutter, and various physics kraken to numerous to list are still not "eliminated". Add to that the multiple-facepalm-worthy game engine borkage we see every couple of versions, like continual crashing, broken HID support, broken settings system, and broken graphics...

Yeah, "eliminate the most common and problematic" my ass. More like "release broken, hotfix the easy stuff, hype the next version".

As for the "right now" situation, I'm pretty sure broken resource transfer fits the description of both common and problematic.

Edited September 16, 2020 by steve_v

[Bej Kerman]

On 9/7/2020 at 1:13 AM, DoToH said:

On 9/3/2020 at 3:40 PM, Boyster said:

I am sure they gonna fix them

I am not.

 

On 9/3/2020 at 4:07 PM, steve_v said:

1.6.x has no Breaking Ground. I'd like to play the DLC I bought.
1.4.x - 1.7.x has broken joystick support. I fly planes a lot, and I want the functionality the game used to have to actually work.
1.8.x fixed joystick support, but settings are reset every time you start the game and the atmosphere shaders are all screwed up.
1.9.x fixed the atmo, but didn't fix settings not applying. It also introduced various exotic mod-borking bugs relating to prefab resources and symmetry.
1.10.x still didn't fix settings not applying, and additionally borked resource transfer.
All of the above still have craft sliding around, wheels bouncing all over the place, parts displacing on restarting the game, and other ancient and infuriating bugs to numerous to list.

So, which release of this lovely, polished, not at all perpetual-beta game should I play? Should I wait for the next release, get all my mods sorted out, then discover there's yet another new and idiotic regression?
Oh, the suspense, what will be broken this time?

^^ This. 

I don't play this "forever-early-access" game any more. From 0.18 to 1.7.3 I played each and every update. Thousands of hours played. Never got bored. The only thing that made me left the game was the endless wait for the next update to fix one or another bug, the constant hold, wait, before starting my new mission, base or whatever, hoping that there will be a stable version some day that can be used to play a very long save. That version never came. And 1.7.3 is the last version I installed.

I seriously doubt I would play this game any more, still I have it installed and come to the forums once in a while, and with each new update, hoping for the best and finding the same as before, just new bugs. It's sad to say that about a game I recommended to everyone I know. Now I think I recommended a never-ending project of a game.

The number in the version before the first dot doesn't make the game finished. For every single minor feature or cosmetic update we get a bunch of new bugs and some old ones revived. All those bugs mentioned here before (and some others) prove one thing: KSP is a (bad) beta. The fact that many people are still playing 1.3.1 should have made SQUAD think seriously about it, but they chose this insane strategy. Even games developed by only ONE person get more hotfixes for critical bugs than this one. Why? I don't know. And I don't care anymore.

KSP2 will be finished before KSP, despite the delays, and by the time, as KSP buglist is constantly growing, KSP2 will surely be less buggy. If I have to wait, I'd better wait for other product, developed by other team. Maybe they have better QA and bug fixing people/skills/will/whatever. Meanwhile, I will be around here, reading changelogs about new useless parts nobody asked for and workarounds for partialy solving new gamebreaking bugs. It's funnier when you don't play the game.

I would play KSP if it didn't have a negative impact on the performance of my PC. I'm sure my PC would be much faster and less worn out had I never booted KSP. Unfortunately, the architecture of the game is very old and is probably beyond repair at this point.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Bej Kerman

[steve_v]

Holy untrimmed quoting...

[LittleBitMore]

You guys need to realize bugs can be fixed via mod patches. Mods aren't just for adding content, but also patching up bugs that the devs can't fix for various reasons.

Now I don't know if there is actually a mod patch to fix these bugs, but if there isn't, you can always toss up a request or try it yourself.

[dok_377]

3 minutes ago, LittleBitMore said:

You guys need to realize bugs can be fixed via mod patches

And yet there's still "somehow" not a single mod to fix broken fuel transfer. And no fixes for numerous other "features", for that matter. Good try, but no. You can't fix hardcoded stuff with a simple MM patch, that job is on the developers. 

[LittleBitMore]

13 minutes ago, dok_377 said:

And yet there's still "somehow" not a single mod to fix broken fuel transfer. And no fixes for numerous other "features", for that matter. Good try, but no. You can't fix hardcoded stuff with a simple MM patch, that job is on the developers. 

Fair point. I never said it was easy, only that it was possible. I'm not a modder myself, so I don't know the difficulty of these things.

But I betcha if you put up a patch request over in the mods subforums then you might get what you needed. And even if not there are still workarounds. Or mods that automate workarounds, which is a different thing you could request for if you want that instead. If there is a workaround, then a mod automating the workaround would probably be easier than a mod that fixes that bug.