Kerbal Space Program 2 Release into Early Access Feb 24th

[FleshJeb]

I'm never buying an early access game again, including this one. Between perpetual feature creep, lousy performance, and abominable QA/QC, I'm just done with supporting that method/culture of software development. Call me when the game is finished and at a high standard (and I don't mean 1.0). I quit KSP 1 after 6000 hours because I just couldn't take being an unpaid software tester for an increasingly bad product anymore. This game is easily going to make 10s of millions, you can afford the staff.

I also remain convinced that 99% of UI designers of the last 15 years are blissfully unaware that people actually have to use their product to do things. The execution of what you've got is really good, but it's still noisy, flat, and has transparency, so it's flawed at a very fundamental level. A pig with great lipstick is still a pig.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, FleshJeb said:

I'm never buying an early access game again, including this one. Between perpetual feature creep, lousy performance, and abominable QA/QC, I'm just done with supporting that method/culture of software development. Call me when the game is finished and at a high standard (and I don't mean 1.0). I quit KSP 1 after 6000 hours because I just couldn't take being an unpaid software tester for an increasingly bad product anymore. This game is easily going to make 10s of millions, you can afford the staff.

This would only make sense if EA VS 1.0 had any real difference in meaning.

Timberborn and Dyson Spheres Program are more complete and polished as Early Access games than most AAA 1.0 games.

If you deal with absolutes you're still going to play plenty of unfinished messes while loosing on great games.

[Pthigrivi]

1 hour ago, Ghostii_Space said:

No, absolutely not. All content listed in the roadmap will be included in the $49.99 Early Access price. 

Thanks for the clarity. This seemed implied but its great news. I know price points and expectations are a fraughtful game. Im one of those weirdos who would pay extra to have things early and give feedback so its all gravy to me. 




Edit: Google tells me "fraughtful" is not a word. It feels right so Im leaving it. Deepest apologies, rmaine.

 

Edited October 21, 2022 by Pthigrivi

[DwightLee]

Multiplayer in KSP2 had never ( for me ) been a drive, it will be an interesting side thing I do occasionally but certainly will never be the primary game. I would be just as excited about KSP2 if it were dropped. I am only saying this so people understand that it is not the end all for everyone. 

On the price, I have no issues.

On the Early access thing, this is exactly how a game like this should be launched, I think it is absolutely as it should be with the caveat that it does not take years between the stages

Edited October 21, 2022 by DwightLee

[Minmus Taster]

Wait, if colonies are made with gathering resources when why is resource gathering after colonies AND interstellar travel?

[t_v]

5 minutes ago, Minmus Taster said:

Wait, if colonies are made with gathering resources when why is resource gathering after colonies AND interstellar travel?

What I’m hoping is that basic systems are in place before they are expanded upon. I want to have resource scanners and underground deposits, and self-building drill mechanisms, and all that, but I’m happy to build my colonies using copious amounts of Ore taken from barely a meter below the ground. (That simplicity would be a bit extreme, but hopefully it shows the point)

[Stephensan]

So here is my full opinion so far with this release of the most recent video instead of just giving out a straight one line sentence.. Im not trying to sound pessimistic, rude, ungrateful or anything that can start hate wars, nor something someone can nickpick every sentence i typed, im stating what as for someone that has been watching/reading since the release of ksp 1 to now. i have re-edited this since 12pm my time so the train of thought doesn't exist im sorry its typical.

 

So, congrats on releasing the game.. We have a date, price, location to buy all in one location, easy to read easy to find, and is on some of the largest platforms for PC consumption of video games such as steam, and epic games.

 

The game price, is, rather slightly hard to swallow knowing that "some" of the "key" important features like Science, Colonies, Interstellar Travel, Other Solar Systems, Resource Gathering along side Automation and finally Multiplayer will not be implemented at the date of release, at 50 USD, that is almost as much as a AAA title without the microtransactions (around 60 USD on avg for a AAA game with microtransactions/DLC), for a game that will further along the line will get its main features installed later down the road.. I can only assume it will further increased to 60 usd as well. I'm not suggesting that the price should be lowered or that its to high, trust me i understand that money is needed for how much work, members, expectations etc, however i'm pointing out for a game of this caliber purchasing "early" feels kinda off, as if we are lacking "goodies" for saying thank you for playing early in this state, suggestions can be brought up but i can only think of things that will correlate to Multiplayer section like titles, or a band around your pfp icon, or things like a custom KSP 2 AI pfp maker, but thats sounds to greedy and needy... I'm just stating in a fashion of beta state game with a roadmap etc i would like to see something to show that you played when it came out, or joined in/played during X time of ksp 2..

 

As of right now understanding where the game is located in development, the lack of a science mode/career mode largely, in my mind is a let down for the current time, this removes almost all aspects of wanting to push harder than before, and alongside with other stuff being removed is a hard case to suggest my friends to play things like ksp 2 when it comes out due to the lack of something "new" (loosely vets will enjoy ksp 2 regardless) for the veteran ksp players, we hear about wanting us to go to ALL the kerbal system planets but at the end of the day wouldn't really require much time at the end, we would build a "Obama Square The 37th" and go to all the planets and shortly due to the newer/refreshed mechanics of time warp etc. I would say, even as a healthy amount of playing just to ensure "you seen everything" having around 150 hours worth of content they can viably do before running out of content. I could have easily said 200-300 hours without a doubt if any of the one missing parts of the roadmap was going to be implemented on release date.. I don't really suggest the entire roadmap in my mind and i would love to see it separated in a different way if the road map is in YEARS, not in a half years time a good suggestion would be

 

Stage 1: Science, Science Gathering, Tech Tree Progression, Resource Gathering.
Stage 2: Colony Parts, Orbital Vehicle Construction
Stage 3: Interstellar Scale Parts, New Debdeb System
Stage 4: More launch locations (not understanding that part) and Multiplayer, New Solar System..

 

In my mind seeing it formatted like that would make someone WANT to come back each stage being completed due to it all "comes together" instead of "one piece split from another".. The first stage would make it challenging and give people creative idea's how to land large mining areas WITHOUT OVA and making large ships without breaking the bank if that is something that is enabled while also exploring the Science side of KSP. Alongside this they can start to flesh out there Tech Tree to a point where colonies, better rocket fuel etc will be started to be made, with automated launch machines already gathering resources, the drills/factory's mining etc and making a "pseudo OVA" where rss can be in high orbit to be transferred later to other planets or transferred back home. Sadly i can only see a small factory working due to limit sizes of weight etc for kerbain launches, this will also already put in the mind set that you need automated runs for resources so you can make machines and fuel for the WAY harder levels if that will still exist in the game, and would teach players how to do "suicide burns" or "proper expensive multipart landings" for the people that want the extra challenge.

Stage two would be perfectly connected from stage one, you already have your fleet of rss ready or landed in some cases heck you can be coming in from the first time and have options due to OVA being available compare to stage one, routes, and understanding of what to do to make the OVA, and colonies work, now you just need to connect the dots and make it official! The original format doesn't quite line up in my mind, why would gathering resources not be in the science/rocket buildings BEFORE colonies and interstellar, but after its a huge miss in my mind. With the second stage you can really ramp up large factories and production of rare resources materials, exotic fuels etc, compared to before of the very fine and few limited amount you had before...

Stage three is now in a better understanding, you have learn from CC's or your friends about this great game called KSP 2, where you can build rockets, build colonies, make them self sufficient, make fuel, find exotic materials, create HUGE Intersolar system rockets, and this stage now brings in interstellar travel, where you can go to a new solar system!

Stage four is now the time to shine, you have everything nearly perfectly polished out, all you have now is multiplayer to play with your friends and a new solar system to play with.

 

In my mind that makes more sense in the start, people like Content Creators and people alike will start to play ksp 2 and being able to see what they are capable of doing due to "a new game" with new parts, but slowly but surely it gets better and better and even if you started playing when it was released after stage one, your brain is engrained of how to do ABC, XYZ QWERTY, etc. There would already be plenty of videos, and knowledge, game bugs/mechanics fleshed out and fixed before multiplayer even comes out, with the "most important" beginner stages being completed "first"...

Anyway, sorry for that small rant, i think i should have stated where my mind is coming from before anything else, When i see a road map, i hear "1 year and a half plus" not for example 6 months.. the most challenging part will be getting people to understand resources gathering is a thing and aswell as science etc and have it all meld together properly instead of separating it by (*) amount of time.. When ksp 2 comes out of beta there would/will be tons of videos of how to efficiently do XYZ and ABC, aswell as hitting that sweet sweet free advertising. having it staged where the "hardest new player hurdel" at the start will help make more videos, and understanding of how to make a functional "fun" (fun being subjective depending on if difficulty exists) gameplay

I don't have much more issues of everything else... People will talk about "only windows" and the only thing i can think of its one "platform" instead of 3+ os/platforms..

if this is to much of a "wall" please do not :snip: please just spoil it.

[DwightLee]

5 minutes ago, t_v said:

What I’m hoping is that basic systems are in place before they are expanded upon. I want to have resource scanners and underground deposits, and self-building drill mechanisms, and all that, but I’m happy to build my colonies using copious amounts of Ore taken from barely a meter below the ground. (That simplicity would be a bit extreme, but hopefully it shows the point)

I suspect that is true for all the systems

[Snark]

2 hours ago, Pthigrivi said:

Where's @Snark at? His mod is brilliant and Im sure he knows.

Thanks for the vote of confidence ... but the one mod I've written that's relevant to this (BetterBurnTime) doesn't actually "solve" this problem any more than the stock KSP1 game does.  BBT assumes instantaneous burns, just like stock KSP.  That's because assuming otherwise is a Hard Problem, which I for one do not propose to tackle myself.

FWIW, I am assuming that this phrase,

9 hours ago, Intercept Games said:

the new non-impulsive maneuver planner

...means precisely what HebaruSan already suggested:

2 hours ago, HebaruSan said:

I would guess that the maneuver planner will no longer assume a maneuver takes place instantaneously, for long smeared out burns.

The ability for the game to calculate brachistochrone trajectories rather than always assuming an instantaneous burn (i.e. a single impulse) should be a real (ahem) game-changer.  Really make it nicer for low-TWR craft, even when they're just interplanetary rather than interstellar.

Kudos to the dev team for solving this-- it must have been a lot of work, and I expect it'll be totally worth it for the improved player experience.

[FleshJeb]

19 minutes ago, Master39 said:

This would only make sense if EA VS 1.0 had any real difference in meaning.

I'm arguing that it SHOULD. I remember when games never got above 1.03. They were FUN.

20 minutes ago, Master39 said:

Timberborn

As it happens, I left them a very nasty note on their bug tracker asking them why the "heck" there were now blue LED lights and robots in my pastoral beaver game. All they needed to do was provide some good colony management tools, and it would have been perfect, but they decided to add marginally useful food items and ROBOTS. We still don't have adequate colony management tools. I quit playing Timberborn too.

22 minutes ago, Master39 said:

If you deal with absolutes you're still going to play plenty of unfinished messes while loosing on great games.

Oh no, I have to go outside more. Tragic. I might re-install Ghost Recon 1, or just keep playing Factorio. DSP is one of those games seems more fun to watch than it is to play. Especially since they added the proliferator mechanic. I really want to play ONI because the gas mixing and thermodynamics are fascinating, but I understand it's really buggy and non-performant. It doesn't really matter because I have the wiki memorized, a base theory-crafted and drawn on paper, and all the math done--Purchasing the game and building it would be redundant.

[Alexoff]

With news like this, it's very interesting to remember some other stories. Remember how a famous journalist told us in the summer of 2020 how a bad publisher ruined a great game studio?

https://www.gamepressure.com/newsroom/kerbal-space-program-2-in-trouble-rumors-about-truth-behind-the-f/z81dab

In addition, according to Bloomberg, last year Star Theory itself asked for a six-month postponement to add new content to KSP2

And what kind of content did the studio want to add then, almost three years ago? Maybe a career? Just six months later, we will be offered to buy a remaster of the KSP version 0.21, and the question here is - what did the developers have in their hands in 2019? Pre-rendered trailer?

[Tweeker]

$49.00 for an early access game?

Blech

I've still got a bad taste in my mouth from the way they treated Star Theory, Now they want to push an unfinished game out at AAA pricing?

Double Blech.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Tweeker

[Strawberry]

I think the main reason that resource gathering is after interstellar travel is because more people are looking towards interstellar travel and they have to space out adding stuff in order to get cohesive feedback on each of the systems, but honestly Id prefer it if resource gathering was split off into a mini major update in between colony parts and DebDeb. While this would delay the amount of time we get to play with interstellar travel, it'd give people a much better time to get a sense for the resource economy, trade and how it all relates to the other systems such as research and colonies.

[The Aziz]

1 hour ago, t_v said:

In terms of the UI elements and their positioning, I actually really like it because the nav ball contains the most pertinent navigation information (altitude, speed, direction) in close proximity but in distinct locations (want heading? Look up). I think that the choice of ticker tape is reasonable because it gives a good indicator of rate of change, and even modern aircraft HUDs use it because it works. However, the font and the way the lines are put together is visually cluttered, more than any of the other UIs in your post. Even if you compressed the SpaceX interface so it didn’t take up a whole screen, the visual simplicity makes it easier to read. I think that the amount of lines and markers on the navball makes it hard to really distinguish specific pitch angles, and the text on the rest of the UI fades into the information surrounding it

Indeed, the arrangements is fine (it didn't really change that much between different iterations) but the style is a total miss for me. Hell, look at the stages. 12 engines active, each with two bars about propellant, with a teeny tiny text how much is left. That is hard to read too.

Seriously, keep the elements, keep the tape, but don't fiddle with the font and don't be afraid to use some actual gradients instead of fake 8-bit-like ones. Just unclutter it. 

[Stephensan]

3 hours ago, The Aziz said:

I have to agree here. I still very much prefer these:
 

  Hide contents

(though without the LCD font)

 

Over that:
 

  Hide contents

I get the idea behind it, but the pixely font and icons just don't work for a civilization that is about to hit interstellar space. Instead, we landed in the late 90's. Also I can barely read what's on the navball.

Because, modern spaceworthy vehicles can have modern interface.

  Hide contents

Being completely honest, I think the second picture I posted, with Kerbal on EVA, has the best UI of them all.

i think the option of having modded ones, or heck the ones they have shown should be an "option"

[i dont know how to forum]

A minor thing, but life support is mentioned at 10:46 (though the captions say "mod support"). We still don't know if that applies to ships or just colonies, but it seems to at least be hard confirmation that some form of life support will be included down the line, which I don't think we've heard directly before.

[Ryaja]

15 minutes ago, i dont know how to forum said:

A minor thing, but life support is mentioned at 10:46 (though the captions say "mod support"). We still don't know if that applies to ships or just colonies, but it seems to at least be hard confirmation that some form of life support will be included down the line, which I don't think we've heard directly before.

I think it was just the accent

 

[Strawberry]

3 minutes ago, Ryaja said:

I think it was just the accent

He talks fast during there but he's definitely saying "further exploration and life support" instead of "mod support"

[Profugo Barbatus]

1 hour ago, Strawberry said:

I think the main reason that resource gathering is after interstellar travel is because more people are looking towards interstellar travel and they have to space out adding stuff in order to get cohesive feedback on each of the systems, but honestly Id prefer it if resource gathering was split off into a mini major update in between colony parts and DebDeb. While this would delay the amount of time we get to play with interstellar travel, it'd give people a much better time to get a sense for the resource economy, trade and how it all relates to the other systems such as research and colonies.

Nah, its more likely that some subset of resources is not present in the Kerbol system, that gates some of the latter interstellar techs. So makes more sense to get the parts in before the resources, both so you can balance them, and so you can get feedback on the fancier ones without someone having to build an interstellar empire first.

[poopslayer78]

30 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

fake 8-bit-like ones

I personally liked this aspect of the UI, in fact I think the dithered atmosphere indicator makes it very easy to distinguish the atmospheric layers at a glance. ...But I see your point, not everyone may see it as charming like I do.

Now that I zoom into it... the rocket is very tall compared to each atmosphere layer indicator, which makes it ambiguous where layer you're in.  At first I thought the red triangle at the bottom was a plume but maybe it's meant to be an arrow?  Perhaps it would be better if the red arrow/plume was made horizontal to make it very clear what layer you're in.  Maybe it doesn't matter since the actual atmosphere is continuous but since the UI breaks it into distinct regions, the ambiguity bothers me.

Current Actual UI	Deep Fake Suggested UI That I Made

Also, maybe add some sort of "LED" at the top of the atmosphere indicator that turns on when you're in a vacuum.

[MechBFP]

I am genuinely curious what feedback they need from the community before they can implement their science system in the first milestone.

I can certainly see the need for feedback AFTER it is is implemented but I cannot see any useful feedback they could possibly get before hand that they aren’t already clearly aware of from KSP1. 

Even the other milestones are going to be hard pressed to get much usable feedback before we can actually use them that would change their design much.

I am definitely going to be expecting regular updates and various ways to interact with the devs in a similar manner to how Coffee Stain is handling Satisfactory development (a feedback website, weekly dev streams, occasional dev update videos, regular bug fix patches) otherwise I am simply going to view this as another delay trying not to be called a delay.

If they can do that then I will be impressed and content. A high bar to meet in my opinion though. 

Edited October 22, 2022 by MechBFP

[Strawberry]

19 minutes ago, Profugo Barbatus said:

Nah, its more likely that some subset of resources is not present in the Kerbol system, that gates some of the latter interstellar techs. So makes more sense to get the parts in before the resources, both so you can balance them, and so you can get feedback on the fancier ones without someone having to build an interstellar empire first.

To me this would a better reason to gate these things behind the resource as that exclusivity and you needing to invest in that system before you can unlock it is a key part of the balance, and having people flock to the better interstellar option and ignore the precursor one seems like itll make things more muddy.

9 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

I am genuinely curious what feedback they need from the community before they can implement their science system in the first milestone.

I think its less of they need feedback before, and more of the dev team would like to focus on each system at a time and having people giving loads of feedback on both the overall experience and this specific system at the same time would likely muddy up development and make them less able to focus on the specifics.

[Minmus Taster]

I feel like I'm about to run out of likes, this is truly a great day 

[Anth]

The video is great and all but what gives me chills is @Nertea "Ohhhh. And there was silence"

If you can say something about it. Why did you wait until the interview to tell them who you were?

[DeadJohn]

Looking good, KSP 2 team! Procedural parts, procedural recoloring, and launch towers that auto-adjust to the rocket were highlights for me in the early access video.

Consulting KSP 1 modders about the new modding environment is a bonus. Even if that's not ready for early access it's great to see deliberate thought being put into it. @Nerteahas not been chained in the basement just building parts