What do you expect from the Science Update?

[Wheehaw Kerman]

On 5/9/2023 at 5:14 AM, dr.phees said:

Actually I expect lots of new bugs, a cheap copy of KSP 1's science system, a bad science tree (probably the same as KSP 1 again).

If they care, there should be a proper system like Scansat, a good science tree with a couple of starting points (a ground based route (wheels etc.), a plane based route (wings, landing gear), a rocket route. Maybe you could also select your playstyle at start (manned/unmanned).

Science should not just be a 'been there' thing, maybe some quests to look for various surface rocks, so have to drive around a bit and search for stuff, maybe have a cool gadget like a spectrometer integrated to make finding weird rocks easier!

Some science could also be done in various day/night scenarios, making a thermometer only fully effective when it has run a day/night cycle etc.

Innovative science gameplay would be a huge thing. But, as I said, it will probably also just be a copy of KSP 1. So, I don't expect much and keep playing KSP 1 with ScanSat

They certainly do care.  We’ll see what they’ve been able to do when Science drops.  Recall the progress of KSP’s Science mode over the years - at the beginning it was pretty basic, which shouldn’t have been surprising given the constraints Squad was working with.  But it got better.  Given the delta between KSP2 EA and early KSP, I’m optimistic that the first KSP2 Science drop will be a significant improvement.

[some_failure]

telescopes, man i hope there will be telescopes that can take images and do science

[Observe]

1 hour ago, some_failure said:

telescopes, man i hope there will be telescopes that can take images and do science

I'll second that. I'd like to see the game mimic the real world in terms of science and exploration goals and purposes as much as possible. Why have we sent science missions to the Moon and elsewhere? Those are the same goals that the game should have. I don't like the idea of one-module-fits-all. Real missions involve highly customized and specialized probes and landers etc.  I don't want the game to be easier just to satisfy the casual player at the expense of the more serious students of space science. Same goes for life support and other aspects. Finding the right balance to maximize the player base, while still qualifying as a 'realistic' space sim is certainly not an easy task.

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Observe

[cocoscacao]

Just now, Observe said:

Why have we sent science missions to the Moon and elsewhere?

What's stopping you to just take a walk around KSC? The weather is always nice, and the grass is always green. But noooo, humans and their ambitions, preventing them to enjoy simple things in life 

[Audaylon]

I don't know what to expect.  For example, is right clicking a thermometer going to open up the parts tab and show up like every other part but under Science tab.  Or will we have a new Science button on the app.bar

[Lyneira]

11 hours ago, cocoscacao said:

What's stopping you to just take a walk around KSC? The weather is always nice, and the grass is always green. But noooo, humans and their ambitions, preventing them to enjoy simple things in life 

Not sure if there was a misunderstanding here but I feel I should clarify,@Observe's question wasn't rhetorical in calling science missions to the moon and other planets into doubt. Rather, to make you think about what reasons humans had to send them, and implore Intercept to apply those reasons to the Kerbals for doing the same. Let the Kerbals tell the story of why we want to go to these places and what we learned and hope to learn from it. It will give players a sense of purpose beyond "I clicked the science doohickey and now I get points to unlock new parts."

[cocoscacao]

19 minutes ago, Lyneira said:

It will give players a sense of purpose beyond

There are those statues on various planets/moons. I'm intrigued by the "story" of KSP 2, and I'm hoping those are not just some static artifacts to be found, but something we can analyze and get a broader picture why they are there. But how designers are gonna implement that (if they're gonna implement that), is beyond me.

Edit:

I'd actually like if devs shed some more light on this topic in future posts.

Edited May 11, 2023 by cocoscacao

[Lyneira]

7 minutes ago, cocoscacao said:

There are those statues on various planets/moons. I'm intrigued by the "story" of KSP 2, and I'm hoping those are not just some static artifacts to be found, but something we can analyze and get a broader picture why they are there. But how designers are gonna implement that (if they're gonna implement that), is beyond me.

I'm also curious about those and I think Intercept do want to show the Kerbals of the agency discovering these and figuring out for themselves what it all means. I don't expect that part of the Kerbal story for the science update, rather for the final release out of Early Access.

I see those artifacts as a separate story to tell from the science we'll get in science mode though, and I hope that the science experiments we do will also get their own reason for being, beyond just points to unlock parts.

Edited May 11, 2023 by Lyneira

[RocketRockington]

1 hour ago, cocoscacao said:

There are those statues on various planets/moons. I'm intrigued by the "story" of KSP 2, and I'm hoping those are not just some static artifacts to be found, but something we can analyze and get a broader picture why they are there. But how designers are gonna implement that (if they're gonna implement that), is beyond me.

 

I'm expecting it's a dumb 'follow the alien breadcrumbs to their homeworld' story, based on the clues they've dropped - basically ditching why we do astro science in the real world, and turning it into a samey sci-fi story like every other soft-science fiction game or story.   It's not going to be something along the lines of "We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard;"   I'm expecting it to be "The aliens told us to explore this planet next!   Quest complete!  Got some science-XP.  Now do the next quest!"

[Wheehaw Kerman]

1 hour ago, RocketRockington said:

I'm expecting it's a dumb 'follow the alien breadcrumbs to their homeworld' story, based on the clues they've dropped - basically ditching why we do astro science in the real world, and turning it into a samey sci-fi story like every other soft-science fiction game or story.   It's not going to be something along the lines of "We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard;"   I'm expecting it to be "The aliens told us to explore this planet next!   Quest complete!  Got some science-XP.  Now do the next quest!"

This is one concern of yours with which I am absolutely, 100%, completely, totally, and utterly in agreement.

I have not visited the anomalies.  I do not plan on visiting the anomalies.  I am ignoring the anomaly thread and videos.  I will continue to do so through 1.0 and onwards.  If the anomalies are made an integral part of gameplay I will be more than  a little upset.

Precursor aliens are an old, boring, worn-out lazy SF writer’s trope.  This game doesn’t need them.  KSP didn’t need them, and adding them will cheapen and dumb down KSP2.

The only motivation humans and kerbs need to explore their vast universes, real or simulated, is “because it’s there”.  Period.  Hard stop.  

[RocketRockington]

5 minutes ago, Wheehaw Kerman said:

This is one concern of yours with which I am absolutely, 100%, completely, totally, and utterly in agreement.

I have not visited the anomalies.  I do not plan on visiting the anomalies.  I am ignoring the anomaly thread and videos.  I will continue to do so through 1.0 and onwards.  If the anomalies are made an integral part of gameplay I will be more than  a little upset.

Precursor aliens are an old, boring, worn-out lazy SF writer’s trope.  This game doesn’t need them.  KSP didn’t need them, and adding them will cheapen and dumb down KSP2.

The only motivation humans and kerbs need to explore their vast universes, real or simulated, is “because it’s there”.  Period.  Hard stop.  

Glad we agree on something

Note that I wouldn't mind some sort of life-sciences based exploration - extraterrestrial alien fauna or flora would be a-ok with me.  Going out to research it, fantastic.  Doing so because the alien precursors left me a bunch of hints w/their arches or star gates or w/e - no thanks.

[joratto]

On 5/4/2023 at 2:47 PM, Scarecrow71 said:

Are you telling me a probe can't do a scan of the surrounding area and give a report on what's happening?

That’s what the experiments are for. A crew report is qualitative.

On another note, I’m expecting space telescopes.

[Scarecrow71]

2 minutes ago, joratto said:

That’s what the experiments are for. A crew report is qualitative.

On another note, I’m expecting space telescopes.

Not all crew reports are made the same.  For example, why can't probes take the temperature of the surrounding area and transmit that back to the KSC without losing Science points?  What is the actual difference between a crew report and, say, a pressure reading?

[cocoscacao]

57 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

What is the actual difference between a crew report and, say, a pressure reading?

Bigger chance of data corruption due to poor signal? Say Jeb types a message to KSC: "Eve is very cloudy", and they receive "Eve is very loud" .

Joking aside, I didn't like that system either, but from a game standpoint it makes sense. Returning safely earns you a bigger reward.

[Alexoff]

Now we have learned that the parts for science are being made right now. Therefore, I expect that science will appear at least in six months.

[Scarecrow71]

Just now, Alexoff said:

Now we have learned that the parts for science are being made right now. Therefore, I expect that science will appear at least in six months.

I asked in the thread if this is in addition to what they said they made or if they scrapped it all and started over.  My fear is that they started over.

[joratto]

3 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

why can't probes take the temperature of the surrounding area and transmit that back to the KSC without losing Science points? 

That’s a separate issue. I think you should be able to transmit pressure/temp.

Quote

What is the actual difference between a crew report and, say, a pressure reading?

A Kerbal crew can give a qualitative report of their surroundings. A probe needs sensors to measure its surroundings. Those sensors are experiments or kerbnet.

[mcwaffles2003]

Science

[Wheehaw Kerman]

On 5/11/2023 at 7:17 AM, RocketRockington said:

Glad we agree on something

Note that I wouldn't mind some sort of life-sciences based exploration - extraterrestrial alien fauna or flora would be a-ok with me.  Going out to research it, fantastic.  Doing so because the alien precursors left me a bunch of hints w/their arches or star gates or w/e - no thanks.

Can’t argue with that.  Algae or lichen on Laythe would be a nice touch.  The Cult of Zoidberg not so much.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

I had a hope, way back when, that Science would be interesting.  That part of the game would incorporate the data discovered by the player into an ever expanding trove of knowledge about the various CBs of the Kerbolar System. 

It seems, however, than just making a better, modern version of KSP - they want to do something new and interesting with Colonies and resource management - so I'm going to have to hold judgment on the direction of the game until I see what they have in store for us then. 

(Meaning, I don't have high expectations for Science - given that it's not their focus-feature - but I'd like to see Colonies be a whack at the fence) 

 

Edited May 14, 2023 by JoeSchmuckatelli

[Bej Kerman]

On 5/12/2023 at 8:13 PM, Scarecrow71 said:

For example, why can't probes take the temperature of the surrounding area and transmit that back to the KSC without losing Science points?

Because it's a game and they want to incentivize recovering things.

On 5/12/2023 at 8:13 PM, Scarecrow71 said:

What is the actual difference between a crew report and, say, a pressure reading?

Because Kerbals and Humans are notoriously bad at being able to measure the pressure around them, compared to a sensor.  

[Strawberry]

On 5/12/2023 at 2:13 PM, Scarecrow71 said:

Not all crew reports are made the same.  For example, why can't probes take the temperature of the surrounding area and transmit that back to the KSC without losing Science points?  What is the actual difference between a crew report and, say, a pressure reading?

I do hope that KSP2 makes this depend on the experiment, there are some things to where this makes sense for (such as samples), but other things to where it doesnt really. Of course, the things that incentivize you returning should really incentivize you returning it.

On 5/11/2023 at 6:09 AM, Wheehaw Kerman said:

This is one concern of yours with which I am absolutely, 100%, completely, totally, and utterly in agreement.

I have not visited the anomalies.  I do not plan on visiting the anomalies.  I am ignoring the anomaly thread and videos.  I will continue to do so through 1.0 and onwards.  If the anomalies are made an integral part of gameplay I will be more than  a little upset.

Precursor aliens are an old, boring, worn-out lazy SF writer’s trope.  This game doesn’t need them.  KSP didn’t need them, and adding them will cheapen and dumb down KSP2.

The only motivation humans and kerbs need to explore their vast universes, real or simulated, is “because it’s there”.  Period.  Hard stop.  

I am concerned about this too yeah. There are many things to suggest that they intend to have missions to visit these anomalies which just seems eh? Personally I am very much of the opinion that the search for these anomalies should be community driven instead of something the game does for you. 

[Scarecrow71]

1 hour ago, Strawberry said:

I do hope that KSP2 makes this depend on the experiment, there are some things to where this makes sense for (such as samples), but other things to where it doesnt really. Of course, the things that incentivize you returning should really incentivize you returning it.

Yeah, I'm mainly talking about stuff like temperature or pressure readings.  What is the difference in transmitting and returning.  There is none.  And I fully agree that stuff like samples should be returned to get full marks.

[KawaiiLucy]

The thing is, science should be more diverse than what is in KSP 1 for most experiments, right click and done. I personally enjoy BG and ScanSat Experiments, because you have some time associated with the experiments. A single temperature reading would be useless IRL, and you wouldn't send a manned expedition either to study the temperature around a planet. So instead of incentivizing return for every experiment, it should only be for the likes of surface samples etc.

Also: animations! Makes it always more fun to collect some useless points haha

[Klapaucius]

On 5/11/2023 at 8:27 PM, cocoscacao said:

There are those statues on various planets/moons. I'm intrigued by the "story" of KSP 2, and I'm hoping those are not just some static artifacts to be found, but something we can analyze and get a broader picture why they are there. But how designers are gonna implement that (if they're gonna implement that), is beyond me.

Edit:

I'd actually like if devs shed some more light on this topic in future posts.

I actually do not want a story. I like the mystery which allows my imagination to fill in the blanks. Many a pleasant debate has been had in these forums about Kerbal origins, how they survive for years in capsules (I believe they are masters at zoning out) etc.  The developers giving us lighthearted tidbits is all I want.  Anything else is proscriptive and limiting in my view.