You promised us communication, where is it?

[Periple]

2 hours ago, ChrisShourai said:

Who in the echelons of the higher-ups thinks it makes good marketing sense with the state of the community frustrations to withhold any substantive information on the very first milestone since EA launch seven months ago?

Whoever it is, I agree with them.

The downside risk outweighs the upside. With the current sentiment anything they say will be used against them. Saying anything at all about it runs a real risk of poisoning the well for the actual release. Better to be silent and release it when it’s ready.

[Mr Shifty]

47 minutes ago, Periple said:

With the current sentiment anything they say will be used against them.

Only because they've let it get that way by not saying anything. You build a community by communicating. The original KSP remains my favorite game of all time and I spent countless hours here on the forum interacting with moderators and developers. It felt like players knew what was going on and had input. This was the prototype for how to do community management well until the Squad owners came in and screwed everything up. Coffee Stain followed this model to great success. And now here we get years of radio silence, no updates on progress, no idea of when or if things will be done, game breaking (and system breaking) bugs that don't get addressed for months. It's a complete trainwreck. It's clear this game isn't developer priority. I've given up hope that KSP2 will ever be a thing. Certainly it's impossible that they'll ever deliver on 80% of what they've promised. Luckily I keep a pristine copy of the original game with a late version of the BTSM mod on my machine.

[Periple]

1 minute ago, Mr Shifty said:

Only because they've let it get that way by not saying anything. You build a community by communicating.

The issue with KSP2 isn’t lack of communication. The issue is a botched launch and subsequent slow progress.

I still believe they can turn this around, but it all hangs on the roadmap updates. Deeds, not words.

[MarcAbaddon]

Personally I think science update will show if there's a chance to turn it about. The patches since release so far haven't been sufficient to make me more optimistic, if anything it was the other way around.  The science update will show whether this was because the larger part of the team was busy getting science done well or whether the patches show that there are structural issues that prevent them from making progress at a decent speed.

[Sesshaku]

On 9/25/2023 at 2:17 PM, Nerdy_Mike said:

I'll hop in and say it isn't related. We do have some other informative pieces "coming soon, actually soon" were my words on Discord

I honestly think the time for "being funny and mysterious" is long over for KSP2.

Right now your team should really abandon all marketing policies and just be brutally honest regarding what [snip]  are you people doing and what is the actual timeline of your work. Because if your studio can't even put a year on science update, then you're creatly out of your depth

Edited September 27, 2023 by Vanamonde
Mind the language, please.

[Stoup]

Just to make my sentiment clear, so that both sides can day they're understanding each other, I'll say that so far I've not been happy with how communications have gone in response to the recent registry bug problems.

I understand they don't have much information to share, but, ahh, I dunno, it's hard to pin down the exact frustration. 

Probably it's hearing the same vague not-really-informative sort of statements we've gotten in the past.

So what would be the way I'd hope it WOULD be handled?

Honestly, I think the answer I see here has been covered in the thread, unfortunately. There's not much different that they'd need to tell us... it just needs to be fixed, and quickly on an actual sane and logical timescale.

If it's as serious as you claim, I just want to see that you guys can take action to match your words. I hope the patch comes through today, but I'd only be sorely disappointed if it didn't come out this week

[mindseyemodels]

On 9/25/2023 at 5:17 PM, Nerdy_Mike said:

I'll hop in and say it isn't related. We do have some other informative pieces "coming soon, actually soon" were my words on Discord

and uuuuuhhh. when can we maybe expect this? we are all collectively running out of patience when it comes to the lack of transparency... like we know you have something coming up but WHAT is coming up? and we are also a little tired of the statements from Dakota that say approximately nothing while also using a lot of words... just please give us something like ANYTHING regardless of if it's under NDA. despite what you guys say, the reentry video you shared a few weeks ago was the most behind the scenes information we have had since EA release

[The Aziz]

8 minutes ago, mindseyemodels said:

regardless of if it's under NDA

Oooh dear

Sure, make them pay in thousands, why not...

[kdaviper]

35 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

Oooh dear

Sure, make them pay in thousands, why not...

And their job... And future job prospects...

[MechBFP]

20 minutes ago, kdaviper said:

And their job... And future job prospects...

All because they want information RIGHT NOW. The sense of entitlement is hilarious. 

[pandaman]

1 hour ago, mindseyemodels said:

regardless of if it's under NDA

Really?

You don't understand NDAs to you?

[Dakota]

5 hours ago, mindseyemodels said:

and uuuuuhhh. when can we maybe expect this? we are all collectively running out of patience when it comes to the lack of transparency... like we know you have something coming up but WHAT is coming up? and we are also a little tired of the statements from Dakota that say approximately nothing while also using a lot of words... just please give us something like ANYTHING regardless of if it's under NDA. despite what you guys say, the reentry video you shared a few weeks ago was the most behind the scenes information we have had since EA release

We hear ya and we're working towards that goal...maybe not quite breaking NDAs (lol), but pulling back the curtain a bit more for you all.

[Stoup]

8 minutes ago, Dakota said:

We hear ya and we're working towards that goal...maybe not quite breaking NDAs (lol), but pulling back the curtain a bit more for you all.

Are there any specifics at all you can elaborate on? We already know you've said you're working on being more communicative, this is nothing new. In what way do you plan to pull the curtain back more? 

Is it more dev diaries/etc? Some other form of info sharing? 

Again, as I said earlier in the thread, I think it would be beneficial to have any kind of sincere-feeling comms, whether they feature new features or not. This is close to that but not quite on the mark 

[mattihase]

I've known some games livestreaming QA/devs showing off builds before. Probably almost impossible to get the go ahead for from the publisher but it would be a pretty good way to both host a casual, real time chat between the devs and the community and showcaste truthfully the states of upcoming builds.

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by mattihase

[ChrisShourai]

1 hour ago, mattihase said:

I've known some games livestreaming QA/devs showing off builds before. Probably almost impossible to get the go ahead for from the publisher but it would be a pretty good way to both host a casual, real time chat between the devs and the community and showcaste truthfully the states of upcoming builds.

 

This is exactly what Rockfish Games does with Everspace 2, and it works wonders for them since EA and after release with future free updates. The community is involved right along with their development and Eric their phenomenal community manager makes it clear when things are TBD and in testing but wants to show it off to get live community feedback. It makes their players feel respected, heard, and in return the players respect the final decisions of the developers on what stays and what goes and for what reasons (buggy, time constraints, not the vision/direction the devs want, etc). 

[Periple]

1 hour ago, mattihase said:

I've known some games livestreaming QA/devs showing off builds before. Probably almost impossible to get the go ahead for from the publisher but it would be a pretty good way to both host a casual, real time chat between the devs and the community and showcaste truthfully the states of upcoming builds.

If they had done this prior to launch I think the atmosphere would be totally different. We would have had a good idea both of what shape it’s in and project velocity. “We know it’s rough but can’t wait to let you get your little green paws on it anyway” is a positive message.

I think it’s too late to change that now though.

[Kerbart]

Would an example of such lack of communication being posting info of an upcoming hotfix on reddit but not on the forum?

[Stephensan]

1 minute ago, Kerbart said:

Would an example of such lack of communication being posting info of an upcoming hotfix on reddit but not on the forum?

they use discord Dev tracker for that from what it seems

so it has been shown but you have to go to "home" to see it

 

aswell saying it in the bug report hotfix is coming.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Stephensan

[cocoscacao]

On 9/27/2023 at 10:44 PM, Stoup said:

Are there any specifics at all you can elaborate on? We already know you've said you're working on being more communicative, this is nothing new. In what way do you plan to pull the curtain back more? 

Even comms about comms are vague 

[gussi111]

On 9/27/2023 at 10:44 PM, Stoup said:

Are there any specifics at all you can elaborate on? We already know you've said you're working on being more communicative, this is nothing new. In what way do you plan to pull the curtain back more? 

KERB on monday!  

[shelshok]

On 9/27/2023 at 11:05 AM, Stoup said:

I understand they don't have much information to share, but, ahh, I dunno, it's hard to pin down the exact frustration. 

The frustration comes from updates taking longer than expected by the players even if they are just how long they really should take. Honestly, I think a quick daily update, even if tiny (just a screenshot or "we did this today") would help a lot.

The problem is the players have no idea what is being worked on or how long things take, so even if it is just to show that these things time, it will at least give people an idea of what to expect and when instead of waiting for big news at the end of the week or month or whatever, and then not getting it.

At the moment, it feels like there's just a skeleton crew struggling to get anything done. If that's not the case, at least show people working on something.

Edited October 3, 2023 by shelshok

[gluckez]

9 minutes ago, shelshok said:

Honestly, I think a quick daily update, even if tiny (just a screenshot or "we did this today") would help a lot.

I think that would only lead to players complaining on a daily basis as well. Also, "just a screenshot", means nothing to the majority of the playerbase as a lot of time as a developer goes out to things like technical analysis, meetings and unit testing.

[Stoup]

Random idea for something I at least would like to hear more of: maybe some follow ups to previous dev diaries/etc? It's been a while since things like the CBT system was even mentioned, and I'm sure there's plenty of other systems that were slated to have further news that may have fallen by the wayside 

[Alexoff]

54 minutes ago, Stoup said:

Random idea for something I at least would like to hear more of: maybe some follow ups to previous dev diaries/etc? It's been a while since things like the CBT system was even mentioned, and I'm sure there's plenty of other systems that were slated to have further news that may have fallen by the wayside 

Perhaps most of the old diaries were written by people who no longer work in IG

[robgraham]

The issue is that all we seem to get about anything are excuses rather than fixes. Like Rayne I don't and won't go to yet another discord for answers. I have to sit on way to many of them as it is, but the lack of communication and what communication does go out is bad, Like I thought honestly that Frontier Development had set my bar of 'can't be any worse than' after their handling of Elite Dangerous over the years but ever since the "We are cutting back post" things here have gotten worse.

It shouldn't be a big ask for Community Managers to take 5-10 minutes out of a week to get a round up of what is going on and be able to communicate it, I mean it's part of your job. It shoulnd't be 7 months in that we still have zup, nada, no idea of when the updates for features that were promised to be 'rapidly put out' are and some how the few video's that have been released by you all don't fill me with confidence of late either, as core fundimental items that should have been dealt with before EA are being tossed around like 'well hey we got 50$USD from these suckers we are living on their dime now" and while that might not be what is intended it is how it feels.

While I want to say congrats to Mike for his recent personal events, as a customer and a consumer at the same time those personal events should not have the roll on impact that communication and updates with the community fall behind. Especially given that it's not like what has happened was 'sudden' either it was kinda going to happen and based at least roughly on how events go you've had as a company 7 months to plan for 'fixes' so to be 'hiring' at the point when it becomes a problem kinda makes me even less confident in how things are being ran.

There are a thousand and one ways that you all as a company could be communicating better, there are thousands of examples heck one of the easiest would be to do something as simple as this https://trello.com/b/HsMiJggJ/heatblur-public-roadmap and that btw is from a very small developer, but I've seen larger companies do the same. 

But the lack of comms and then the trickle of well we shared some ss's or a talk wtih a dev that's communications isn't.  7 months and we have 0 featuers from the Roadmap, we don't even have all the proper features that were promised to release 'quickly after launch'. And what's worse Community Managers whom won't actually go to bat to get those answers it seems.

 

One thing I'll say about Rayne is that while we might have butted heads on the old forums once or twice she at least always did her best to get the community answers.