Large Info Dump

[SpaceFace545]

1 hour ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

is the fact that something is titled time zoom really be a point of actual contention?
also, what about the not seasoned players? though i have a feeling we will finally be able to mod the UI anyways.

warp does not mean speed up:

warp
move (a ship) along by hauling on a rope attached to a stationary object on shore.

meanwhile:

zoom
(especially of a car or aircraft) move or travel very quickly.

my qualm about time zoom is that there is no purpose at all to rebrand it, any KSP player knows it is time warp

[mcwaffles2003]

2 minutes ago, SpaceFace545 said:

my qualm about time zoom is that there is no purpose at all to rebrand it, any KSP player knows it is time warp

right... but does that even matter?

like really, what does it matter? why is this something anyone should care about?

[Guest]

Do they have actually renamed it? Reading the article it seems it's just the journalist calling it a zoom.

[RealKerbal3x]

2 hours ago, Master39 said:

Do they have actually renamed it? Reading the article it seems it's just the journalist calling it a zoom.

It doesn't actually say 'zoom' anywhere on the UI. I'm inclined to think that it's just the article.

[Bej Kerman]

On 5/29/2020 at 12:03 PM, swjr-swis said:

To me it sounds like they're repeating one of the -in my opinion- mistakes of KSP's sandbox mode: not really being a sandbox by virtue of arbitrarily removing certain aspects of the game (research, funding, missions).

How is it not a sandbox? There's no limits. If it doesn't feel like a sandbox, perhaps the problem is to do with what you build.

[Lewie]

I’m starting to warm up to this ui....

it looks like the devs did put quite a bot of effort into the ui and to be honest, it looks pretty damn cool. I’m cool with it...and hopefully it was only the article that said time zoom, not the actual game. Now I’m hyped for ksp2 again! I just can’t wait for console to be updated to 1.7/1.8-1.10, it’s going to be so awesome...

[DStaal]

1 hour ago, RealKerbal3x said:

It doesn't actually say 'zoom' anywhere on the UI. I'm inclined to think that it's just the article.

It may even be an error that's fixed after the pre-print, as from what I understand this isn't even the final article - just a leaked internal copy of something that will come out.

[Superfluous J]

2 hours ago, RealKerbal3x said:

It doesn't actually say 'zoom' anywhere on the UI. I'm inclined to think that it's just the article.

 

50 minutes ago, DStaal said:

It may even be an error that's fixed after the pre-print, as from what I understand this isn't even the final article - just a leaked internal copy of something that will come out.

Like these points even matter. GET THE PITCHFORKS!

[GluttonyReaper]

17 hours ago, SpaceFace545 said:

I just really want to know why the kerbals take up so much space, to be honest I don't really care about them that much especially when flying 

I can only speculate (I'm not a new player, after all) but I would say that for players coming into the game, the kerbals themselves are a pretty crucial part of the game - hence why even in KSP1 they take up a pretty substantial part of the screen. Aside from being a third of the title, they're argubably one of the biggest draws to the game for many people - they're the difference between KSP being a fun game about flying rockets and a dry space simulator.

Consider a lander crashing on the Mun. Without the kerbals, it can be *interesting*... but at the end of the day it's just a pretty explosion, followed by disappointment as you realize you've failed. With kerbals though, there's a bit of humour to it - Bill and Bob might be terrified, and Jeb'll prolly be grinning like a maniac as they plough into the ground. Sure, it might not be a big deal to veteran players, but for new people it might be the difference between enjoying the game or ditching it.

So yeah, point is I think they're important enough to be prominent on the screen, at least by default. Having options to hide it is another discussion entirely, which isn't exactly something that's shown particularly well by this low resolution screenshot of a probably-not-final UI that everyone's formed such strong opinions on

[Jacke]

1 hour ago, Superfluous J said:

Like these points even matter. GET THE PITCHFORKS!

DON'T FORGET THE TORCHES!

Edited May 30, 2020 by Jacke

[Gydra54]

I wonder if anyone complaining about the navball position have tried it in KSP. I expected to agree that it should be in the middle, but after playing KSP1 with the Navball moved to the left it's actually not bad at all and I think I even prefer it. Honestly, the more I look at the new UI the more I think it actually makes a lot of sense. Not saying anyone is wrong in their preferences, but I would at least recommend trying out leftside Navball, or just waiting for KSP2 to come out and see how it is then. However, I do agree that they should 100% make the GUI customizable, as much as possible.

[SpaceFace545]

3 hours ago, GluttonyReaper said:

I can only speculate (I'm not a new player, after all) but I would say that for players coming into the game, the kerbals themselves are a pretty crucial part of the game - hence why even in KSP1 they take up a pretty substantial part of the screen. Aside from being a third of the title, they're argubably one of the biggest draws to the game for many people - they're the difference between KSP being a fun game about flying rockets and a dry space simulator.

Consider a lander crashing on the Mun. Without the kerbals, it can be *interesting*... but at the end of the day it's just a pretty explosion, followed by disappointment as you realize you've failed. With kerbals though, there's a bit of humour to it - Bill and Bob might be terrified, and Jeb'll prolly be grinning like a maniac as they plough into the ground. Sure, it might not be a big deal to veteran players, but for new people it might be the difference between enjoying the game or ditching it.

So yeah, point is I think they're important enough to be prominent on the screen, at least by default. Having options to hide it is another discussion entirely, which isn't exactly something that's shown particularly well by this low resolution screenshot of a probably-not-final UI that everyone's formed such strong opinions on

I just don’t think they’re that important that they need to be where the important stuff is like the altitude

[Jacke]

38 minutes ago, Gydra54 said:

I wonder if anyone complaining about the navball position have tried it in KSP. I expected to agree that it should be in the middle, but after playing KSP1 with the Navball moved to the left it's actually not bad at all and I think I even prefer it. Honestly, the more I look at the new UI the more I think it actually makes a lot of sense. Not saying anyone is wrong in their preferences, but I would at least recommend trying out leftside Navball, or just waiting for KSP2 to come out and see how it is then. However, I do agree that they should 100% make the GUI customizable, as much as possible.

With mods and later stock, I've slide the navball over to the left since KSP 1.3.  I prefer it over there.  For tricky maneuvering and landings, I also expand the navball.

This is why I think putting in as many easy customization options as possible for KSP 2 UI element position and colour is very important.  It allows the UI to be adjusted for different users and different situations.  Having just one locked in is a poor second option.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Jacke

[Gargamel]

4 minutes ago, Jacke said:

This is why I think putting in as many easy customization options as possible for KSP 2 UI element position and colour is very important.  It allows the UI to be adjusted for different users and different situations.  Having just one locked in is a poor second option.

As we've seen in many suggestion threads over the years, things that are very susceptible to a player's preference need to have optional toggles and adjustments.  Just remember, a good number of the devs, the Creative Director in particular, are KSP players.  They'll get it right. 

[Lewie]

Just now, Gargamel said:

As we've seen in many suggestion threads over the years, things that are very susceptible to a player's preference need to have optional toggles and adjustments.  Just remember, a good number of the devs, the Creative Director in particular, are KSP players.  They'll get it right. 

Nailed it, man.

[Pthigrivi]

Somehow it seems more intuitive to have the navball on the right side to me? Maybe cause I'm right handed and that's where my mouse is? Though I guess that would push the staging to the left, and I prefer the consistency they've established.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Pthigrivi

[Jacke]

38 minutes ago, Gargamel said:

As we've seen in many suggestion threads over the years, things that are very susceptible to a player's preference need to have optional toggles and adjustments.  Just remember, a good number of the devs, the Creative Director in particular, are KSP players.  They'll get it right. 

Never make assumptions.  Until we hear news about KSP 2's UI having customization elements and the details on them, we don't know they're being worked upon, their nature, or that they're finally included.  The alternate view is that a UI should be standardized has some support and that can be very tempting as it reduces the scale of work on the UI.

I think the best compromise would be to give easy customization similar to what KSP has but a bit more, with more moveable elements and some colour customization, at least to allowing the UI to be switched to schemes helpful for colourblind players.  Those colourblind settings are also important for video makers and streamers so that their colourblind audience members can best appreciate seeing KSP 2.

29 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said:

Somehow it seems more intuitive to have the navball on the right side to me? Maybe cause I'm right handed and that's where my mouse is? Though I guess that would push the staging to the left, and I prefer the consistency they've established.

I'm left-handed but like most left-handed people, with a strong mix of right-handed behaviour.  I use the mouse right-handed.  I think I like the navball on the left because I have left-master-eye and that I'm used to screen UIs having more important elements on the left.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Jacke

[GluttonyReaper]

1 hour ago, SpaceFace545 said:

I just don’t think they’re that important that they need to be where the important stuff is like the altitude

Thing is though, we only consider that an important space because that's where the altitude is in KSP1. In reality, it's actually a bit of an awkward position - on larger screens, it's generally not somewhere you're looking very often, especially given the most important time you need it is during landing when you're going down. It's not massively suitable for something you need to know in real time; I'm assuming this is the reason that shooter type games often put health/ammo at the bottom of the screen. 

[DunaManiac]

Personally, I don't find anything wrong with the UI other than the fact that the important stuff like speed and altitude are small and hard to see, which is what I like about KSP1's UI.

[Pthigrivi]

@Jacke I think I'm one of those people who was born lefty and was trained to be a righty. Im right eye dominant, play hockey lefty and ride goofyfoot. 

[swjr-swis]

9 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

How is it not a sandbox? There's no limits.

The answer to your question is right there in the text you quoted:

Quote

by virtue of arbitrarily removing certain aspects of the game (research, funding, missions).

So there are, in fact, limits to the stock sandbox mode:

• You cannot manipulate or even see the research tree since R&D is locked, which makes designing craft for a very specific set of unlocked tech nodes and parts difficult.
• Funding and strategies are unavailable, which makes it difficult to design craft that stay within specific monetary limits.
• Missions are unavailable. Which means I cannot easily test craft viability for specific mission types.
• The above limitations force me to reference external sources to keep track of what parts are within the tech/funds limits I am aiming for, and I am forced to exit the save entirely and load up the career one to test run my designs with specific missions.

It's like being offered a theoretical open world RPG... but with quests, crafting, and skilling disabled. There ya go, knock yourself out.

Hence my own version of a sandbox: a career mode game with an appropriate cheatmenu-sponsored injection of funds, science, rep and facility levels, to be able to do ALL of the above things, truly without limits. I've not used the actual sandbox mode of the game ever since.

[Jacke]

7 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said:

@Jacke I think I'm one of those people who was born lefty and was trained to be a righty. Im right eye dominant, play hockey lefty and ride goofyfoot. 

It's not always training except how you stumble onto it.  My mother was left-handed and even in the 1930's her father insisted she be let to write with her left hand.  However, her teachers did train her to write left-handed with the true mirror of right-handed style with her hand tucked below her work.  I instead learned to write left-handed with my left hand in the "hook" position, dragging  over my writing.  Good thing quick-drying inks came out soon after.

I'm left master-eye but shoot right-handed.  So except for pistol, it's all right-eyed from rifle to tank gunner.

[Jacke]

36 minutes ago, swjr-swis said:

So there are, in fact, limits to the stock sandbox mode:

• You cannot manipulate or even see the research tree since R&D is locked, which makes designing craft for a very specific set of unlocked tech nodes and parts difficult.
• Funding and strategies are unavailable, which makes it difficult to design craft that stay within specific monetary limits.
• Missions are unavailable. Which means I cannot easily test craft viability for specific mission types.
• The above limitations force me to reference external sources to keep track of what parts are within the tech/funds limits I am aiming for, and I am forced to exit the save entirely and load up the career one to test run my designs with specific missions.

It's like being offered a theoretical open world RPG... but with quests, crafting, and skilling disabled. There ya go, knock yourself out.

Hence my own version of a sandbox: a career mode game with an appropriate cheatmenu-sponsored injection of funds, science, rep and facility levels, to be able to do ALL of the above things, truly without limits. I've not used the actual sandbox mode of the game ever since.

For testing purposes for career, instead of depending on sandbox, you might want to run a separate but similar career with @linuxgurugamer's mod Career Manager Continued:

Quote

This mod allows you to lock your funds and science at max, and also is bundled with complete reversibility. If that isn't enough, it also allows you to upgrade all buildings and topple the tech tree, again with full reversibility. It is a phenomenal mod for people who want to utilize some aspects of a career game (such as Kerbal Leveling) but without having to worry about money. I know you can partially do this with the debug menu, but I believe this can be much more elegant and again, has more features.

New Feature: Kickstart Career, allows you to kickstart a career by unlocking the first few levels of the tech tree

 

There's also mods like @katateochi's Craft Manager to move craft designs between save games including to and from KerbalX if you so desire.

 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Jacke

[Pthigrivi]

2 hours ago, Jacke said:

It's not always training except how you stumble onto it.  My mother was left-handed and even in the 1930's her father insisted she be let to write with her left hand.  However, her teachers did train her to write left-handed with the true mirror of right-handed style with her hand tucked below her work.  I instead learned to write left-handed with my left hand in the "hook" position, dragging  over my writing.  Good thing quick-drying inks came out soon after.

I'm left master-eye but shoot right-handed.  So except for pistol, it's all right-eyed from rifle to tank gunner.

Part of it was I learned to draw really early and I think my preschool teachers kept putting crayons in my right hand. I still "write up", as in all the main vertical strokes start at the bottom and go up which makes my handwriting really strange to everyone else. Im sure I've never fired a tank but all my rifle and bow experience is right-eyed. 

[swjr-swis]

4 hours ago, Jacke said:

For testing purposes for career, instead of depending on sandbox, you might want to run a separate but similar career with @linuxgurugamer's mod Career Manager Continued:

An excellent mod indeed, but not a solution for stock players like me.

 

4 hours ago, Jacke said:

There's also mods like @katateochi's Craft Manager to move craft designs between save games including to and from KerbalX if you so desire.

KerbalX (and by extension the directly related Craft Manager mod) has my undying support, but it's not a solution to the issue I describe. Aside from the obvious impact on rapid prototyping and iteration of craft designs:

• Finish iteration 123 of craft to the point of needing a live test
• Save craft
• Open craft manager
• Upload craft to KerbalX (which has a few substeps of its own, left out for simplicity)
• Close craft manager
• Exit to main menu
• Load career game
• Open craft manager
• Search and download the newly iterated craft
• Load it into the game
• Launch, test, record observations of what worked or didn't, and what still needs improvement
• Exit to main menu
• Load sandbox game
• Edit craft
• Rinse and repeat.... for easily several dozen iterations in a single session

It would also end up cluttering uploads with endless series of unfinished iterations of craft files.