Kerbal Space Program 1.11.1 is live!

[VoidSquid]

4 hours ago, Lisias said:

In a year more os less KSP2 is expected to be launched, anyway

Tell you what: I'm not interested anymore in KSP 2.

What would I get? Another alpha version? More Eye candy, more polishing? Technically impressive, probably. But soulless animations.  DOA.

Seen that way too often. just a few days ago the final part three of one of my favorite games had been released. And again: technically brilliant, but soulless.

Edited February 1, 2021 by VoidSquid

[FleshJeb]

2 minutes ago, VoidSquid said:

Tell you what: I'm not interested anymore in KSP 2.

I'll buy KSP 2 when KSP 1 is out of beta. Yes, I know it's a different team, but it's still on Unity, using the same resources, and I'm going to assume they have the same kind of technical debts to deal with.

I did a Warp to Node in a recent version and it warped past the Mun...3 times. The first priority of a physics sandbox should be that the physics just works; everything else is secondary.

There's a reason I played 1600 hours of Factorio last year, and about 100 of KSP--That game and dev team is bulletproof, and if there's a problem, in the experimental release it's usually patched in hours.

[VoidSquid]

Just now, FleshJeb said:

I'll buy KSP 2 when KSP 1 is out of beta.

That's absolutely brilliant, thank you!  

[Superfluous J]

On 1/30/2021 at 1:28 PM, Chris_2 said:

what. Now my battery has disappeared entirely. What I did is click a kerbal (engineer), then click the container in which the battery is placed, then  drag the battery of the container, and then click the construction icon (while still dragging). This makes the dragged part disappear / vanish completely. This is a bug, and is reproducible.

It should be fixed, I agree. However, you're doing it wrong as well.

Don't try to use inventory and then go into construction mode. Go into construction mode and then pretend you're in the VAB. Take the battery from the list on the left and place it in the ship. No inventory space needed.

[Dafni]

As it stands now I am still on 1.3.1 (SSRSS) and 1.8.1 (JNSQ and stock/OPM) for the time being.

Truth be told I did not spend too much time on 1.11 yet, might give it another spin as soon as some mods update.

[Rakete]

So... how many upvotes does it take in the bug tracker. Some of my filed tickets have 8 or more upvotes and no fix.

[TriggerAu]

Just reading back theres a few posts about bugs and priority that I feel I can add some context about without going into internal stuffs.

Which bugs get attention in KSP land is a function of a number of variables which does have a fairly well defined logic annd process. From a player perspective issue voting is definitely one factor and people voting to indicate they are suffering the same bug is definitely a help for correlation and interest - this isnt taken as a "hey thats a popular bug we must fix it", but it is one of the easiest ways that players can interact with a specific issue. Another is to update a bug with details, if your interested in a bug and its not fixed in a release adding a comment to say that its not fixed,or how its changed in a release, can be super helpful. 

Outside of those some other items of consideration that have been in discussions Ive been involved in include (but arent limited to) - forum chatter about a bug, severity of the bug (ie what it does to the game and is there a workaround), impact (how many people are affected and/or how often will that bug occur for various player types), reproduction (can we reproduce the described effects), related bugs (or similar systems - so we can close multiple bugs with one fix), and expected effort to resolve can also sometimes come into it.

These are all pretty standard metrics and considerations for this type of work and when solving problems - yes we get bug reports (which are like Incidents to use ITIL parlance), but every one of these is attempted to be solved as a problem and not a stand-alone incident - root cause resolution is the best fix I agree. If a point fix is chosen there is a reason. 

One other one I can comment on is bugs not being looked at. I can assure you that almost every one is looked at, and some form of action taken, but not all the datat attached to a bug ticket is visible to everyone.  I can guaranntee you Ive read all the ones in this thread personally, as well as a number of other people. 

Obviously I cant share all the nuts and bolts of internal discussions and no-one makes the perfect decision every time about which bug is the "most important" to everyone - that can be subjectively different for a player, or tester, or modder, or producer, etc's point of view. I do understand what its like to be wearing all of those hats personally and it can be frustrating to feel that things arent being read at a minimum.

You may not see all these interactions and work going on directly, but I hope my posting this can at least share that many of the team do read, track, repro and work on these. We would love to solve every bugs, feedback, requests, and ask all at once.

And we definitely dont use the Wheel Selection method  

[hendrack]

Whats really left for ksp1 to make me happy is to enable modders to use the Vulkan API and give unity direct file access instead of url loading for the assets. Modded ksp takes forever load.

[Markodds]

We need a new DLC!

[Lisias]

14 hours ago, hendrack said:

Whats really left for ksp1 to make me happy is to enable modders to use the Vulkan API

In the recent past, I remember some add'ons working only on Windows because they were hitting straight into the DirectX - so unless something had changed on Unity, this should be possible yet.

 

14 hours ago, hendrack said:

 give unity direct file access instead of url loading for the assets. Modded ksp takes forever load.

I could not agree more, but there's a catch on it: on the URL->pathname transition. the url file://c/somepath/some.file.name could be translated into c:/somepath/some(file)name , c:/somepath/some_file_name ,  c:/somepath/some_file.name , etc.

So even by replacing the original file access code (what's perfectly possible, I did something similar by replacing the while System.IO.File on a project of mine), you will still need to probe the filesystem for the many possible translations in the hope of hitting something on the filesystem. And this is what I think it's wasting time on the process - you would hit the filesystem multiple times looking for candidates, instead of going right into the spot.

Of course there's a solution - use only dashes, dots and alphanumeric characters on naming everything on the game (some assets' names are translated into filenames), but so you would need to check and recheck every single possible pathname on the whole system - including Unity itself.

In the end, perhaps a Doom's style AWD would be a better solution - or just the good and faithful ZIP files (Java's JAR style). Compressing the data files is saving some loading time on my rig (I'm using spinning platters), and everybody and the kitchen's sink are using  multicore CPUs nowadays (so the CPU tax would be minimal, with huge net gains on loading - I/O is expensive).

One thing that could also speed things a lot at least on lower end rigs as mine, is caching the downsizing of the graphical assets. I use Quarter Resolution on my rig (otherwise my framerate would plummet as I add add'ons on the thing), and this means that KSP is loading the full resolution assets and then downsizing them into memory on every boot. Caching the downsized assets would save a lot of processing on loading things for people that don't use Full Resolution. It would sacrifice a bit the first load, but from that point...

 

15 hours ago, TriggerAu said:

Just reading back theres a few posts about bugs and priority that I feel I can add some context about without going into internal stuffs.

Thanks! I really appreciated it!

 

15 hours ago, TriggerAu said:

<cut by me>

You may not see all these interactions and work going on directly, but I hope my posting this can at least share that many of the team do read, track, repro and work on these. We would love to solve every bugs, feedback, requests, and ask all at once.

I 100% believe you - but yet, the bug collection is going bigger and bigger - some of them somewhat silly (as the Instantaneous Craft Annihilation due Heat on launching vessels on 1.11.0), but some others interestingly convoluted as this new one I just found and that appears to be something missing on the upgradepipeline (the same way I'm pretty sure that the ICA due Heat was due something missing on the launching the craft - perhaps the very same upgradepipeline?). Not to mention some old bugs reappearing now and then.

Something on the Process is not working right, and I don't think this is something that will be solved by extra efforts from the development team - I really find it hard to pinpoint the team as the source of these problems (I'm not saying the devs don't make mistakes - we do it all the time - I'm saying that the development process is not helping on the prevention of bugs, neither on fixing the ones that pass through).

In a way or another, the effects on the user base are being hurtful IMHO.

 

14 hours ago, Markodds said:

We need a new DLC!

I second that. I'm dying for The Barn to see the light of Kerbol!

Edited February 2, 2021 by Lisias
Uh... Some entertaining grammars made less entertaining...

[alphaprior]

There is a new serious bug!
Attaching the new mk1 spotlight on my space station and it explodes! Everytime! 
No matter where I attach it. Exit KSP and reload it no difference.

[Chris_2]

11 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

It should be fixed, I agree. However, you're doing it wrong as well.

Don't try to use inventory and then go into construction mode. Go into construction mode and then pretend you're in the VAB. Take the battery from the list on the left and place it in the ship. No inventory space needed.

That didn't work. I couldnt take the battery from the left.

I've since sent a mission with the smaller batteries that can be carried by a single kerbal and that worked... also the small battery was attached to the hull of a vessel so I could just move it instead of taking it out of a container, so I still don't know what the cause was. It is possible to take components from a container and then move them out of that container and attach it to a vessel, using an engineer?

Edited February 1, 2021 by Chris_2

[alphaprior]

There is a new serious bug reported here:

 

[Superfluous J]

52 minutes ago, Chris_2 said:

That didn't work. I couldnt take the battery from the left.

I've since sent a mission with the smaller batteries that can be carried by a single kerbal and that worked... also the small battery was attached to the hull of a vessel so I could just move it instead of taking it out of a container, so I still don't know what the cause was. It is possible to take components from a container and then move them out of that container and attach it to a vessel, using an engineer?

I don't know the specifics of your situation but yeah. I've taken dozens of things out of storage (dedicated storage, capsules, and Kerbal inventories) and just attached them radially to a ship. Didn't even have to be (but could be) the same ship the storage container was on.

[MZ_per_X1]

4 hours ago, TriggerAu said:

Just reading back theres a few posts about bugs and priority that I feel I can add some context about without going into internal stuffs.

 

Thank you for that comment. I think because we can't see behind the scenes, there  have been speculations about how this actually works. And it was exactly that on my part - speculation. It is nice to know some more details about the work that goes on behind the scenes. 

Does the same apply to console bugs? There, the bugs seem more lethal in terms of playability (ie. a simple task like switching from one building to another causes a massive crash, corrupted save file about every 20 minutes or so). The severity of such things is affecting the gameplay far more than a simple bug and the console version feels less and less stable. 

[Bej Kerman]

14 hours ago, FleshJeb said:

That game and dev team is bulletproof, and if there's a problem, in the experimental release it's usually patched in hours.

Most games are usually capable of patching fatal flaws in good time.

[michu]

Something like this happens to me after updating to 1.11.1 

 

[Anth]

Yeah, I reported that bug. pretty entertaining @michu

A 1.11.2 would be nice to counter that

https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/27194

Main reason that I can determine is that parts that dont have an option for same vehicle interaction (in SPH or in scene) seem to be doing exactly that for parts that are one removed from where they are connected.

I dont remember that happening in 1.11.0

Edited February 1, 2021 by Anth12

[dprostock]

I lost two Class E asteroids that I effortlessly put into Kerbin orbit, impossible to unpin the claws. You get frustrated. 

[TriggerAu]

9 hours ago, Lisias said:

Thanks! I really appreciated it!

No problem!

 

9 hours ago, Lisias said:

I 100% believe you - but yet, the bug collection is going bigger and bigger - some of them somewhat silly (as the Instantaneous Craft Annihilation due Heat on launching vessels on 1.11.0), but some others interestingly convoluted as this new one I just found and that appears to be something missing on the upgradepipeline (the same way I'm pretty sure that the ICA due Heat was due something missing on the launching the craft - perhaps the very same upgradepipeline?). Not to mention some old bugs reappearing now and then.

Something on the Process is not working right, and I don't think this is something that will be solved by extra efforts from the development team - I really find it hard to pinpoint the team as the source of these problems (I'm not saying the devs don't make mistakes - we do it all the time - I'm saying that the development process is not helping on the prevention of bugs, neither on fixing the ones that pass through).

In a way or another, the effects on the user base are being hurtful IMHO.

Thanks for the measured comments and responses too. We are always looking to improve the process and the game as we go, and working smarter not harder is defiitely a goal in all the teams.

For that one there about upgradepipeline, we didnt do any upgradepipeline work in the last few releases, I didnt see a tracker number for that one in the github - do you know if there is one?

 

5 hours ago, MZ_per_X1 said:

Thank you for that comment. I think because we can't see behind the scenes, there  have been speculations about how this actually works. And it was exactly that on my part - speculation. It is nice to know some more details about the work that goes on behind the scenes. 

Does the same apply to console bugs? There, the bugs seem more lethal in terms of playability (ie. a simple task like switching from one building to another causes a massive crash, corrupted save file about every 20 minutes or so). The severity of such things is affecting the gameplay far more than a simple bug and the console version feels less and less stable. 

No probs. For consoles Ive seen the same sort of conversations and clarifications yeah. There are definitely some differences, like you say  though, in the impact space depending on what the after effects of unintended stuff is

 

10 hours ago, hendrack said:

Whats really left for ksp1 to make me happy is to enable modders to use the Vulkan API and give unity direct file access instead of url loading for the assets. Modded ksp takes forever load.

In my mods Ive been using System.IO.File, etc for a long time, but if you mean that Unity gets you to use WebRequests to load bundles and stuff like that so its platform agnostic, when the games platform is file system based then yeah I get ya for sure.

[alphaprior]

7 hours ago, alphaprior said:

There is a new serious bug reported here:

 

has anyone from devs read this?

[klesh]

30 minutes ago, alphaprior said:

has anyone from devs read this?

To get the kind of response you're after you'll want to post that to the bugtracker.

[alphaprior]

Since it requires another registration I will not post there. If they read it here fine.

[Just Jim]

4 hours ago, alphaprior said:

has anyone from devs read this?

 

3 hours ago, alphaprior said:

Since it requires another registration I will not post there. If they read it here fine.

Wow, I'm sorry your station blew up, but Klesh and everyone else is right. Without a bug report, there's very little we can do. At the very least i would need a copy of your game save, or a craft file of the station that blew up.
I'm sorry it's inconvenient, but there is a process we have to follow. Bug reports are the first step.
This is the first I've seen this particular issue reported, so attaching a game save or craft file at least gives us somewhere to start looking.

Edited February 2, 2021 by Just Jim

[Lisias]

16 hours ago, alphaprior said:

There is a new serious bug!
Attaching the new mk1 spotlight on my space station and it explodes! Everytime! 
No matter where I attach it. Exit KSP and reload it no difference.

I'm interested on this, I'm fighting something similar on TweakScale. Can you zip the craft file and post it here?

In the mean time, check if the root part of the craft is crewable. I could work around the problem by rerooting the craft to a part what holds no crew - any part should do, I rerooted mine to a nose cone!

 

6 hours ago, TriggerAu said:

For that one there about upgradepipeline, we didnt do any upgradepipeline work in the last few releases, I didnt see a tracker number for that one in the github - do you know if there is one?

I'm still trying to zero into the problem, I'm registering my findings here.

The upgadepipeline not being updated on the last few releases may corroborate my thesis - some things are being missed when loading KSP 1.10 parts into KSP 1.11 which introduced some new artefacts to deal with (and are not being done on loading 1.10.x crafts on 1.11).

It should be something pretty stupid that once found we will all collectively facepalm ourselves while getting drunk after hours - these small pesky bugs are the ones that really plays havoc, huge mistakes are easily detected.