hi, can we all cool down just a little? genuinely?

[LittleBitMore]

(Not directly related to KSP2, but rather, the community's reaction to it.)

 

I haven't been active on the forum recently, and I wanted to talk about some cool stuff I was doing in the (absolutely amazing) Planet Jam 2 pack for KSP1. I browse a little in the KSP2 forums just to see what's going on, and I'm gonna be real: thinly veiled tension or outright hostility seems to be the norm in the KSP2 subforums, and this has on occasion leaked over to the KSP1 or offtopic subforums too.

Look, I get it, I really do, KSP2 simply is very much not what it was announced to be all the way back in 2019. There's a ton of missing features on the early access alpha launch, which notably arrived 3 years after it was originally scheduled to release. Most computers can't manage 30fps right now. I myself, since the launch of KSP2, have been completely unable to even go to the Mun and back without some mission ending bug destroying the craft, squiggling my orbits, disintegrating my kerbals, or so many other tiny and silly things that somehow break a mission (for example, just last week, after planting a flag on the Mun, I simply was not allowed to board back into the craft). All of my recent forum topics are me complaining about KSP2 bugs. I too was a bit disappointed after paying $50 and not getting a stable experience that was reliably enjoyable. I too was real annoyed at the several missing parts and features that you can just find in stock KSP1. I do not play KSP2 regularly.

However. I feel like a schism is being driven in the KSP community about the state of KSP2 due to the incomplete state of the game. Tensions are rising specifically because some users feel cheated or scammed out of their $50 which they could've used for better things. This tension wasn't there before KSP2 (obviously), and as a forum user who hasn't done a whole lot here since KSP2's release, the contrast between the lovely, unified, and supportive community of old KSP1 (i say "old" relatively, I joined in like 2019), and the tense, warring community of modern day KSP2. This community doesn't feel the same anymore.

 

A lot of people blame the developers, which I think is definitely a little out of place. The developers have gone through some serious hardships (Take Two pulling the contract from Star Theory and causing internal stresses, as well as severe stresses from COVID, both happening at nearly the same time), and are still working hard. There's evidence in the game files and code that long-term future features, such as interstellar travel or colonies, are definitely being actively worked on. The developers have seemed like genuinely nice people over the forums and over live interviews and stuff like that, and they admit the shortcomings of the game and are actively trying to improve the state of things, so I don't think they're being superficial with their interactions with the community. (To me, their interactions seem more like they're going "ah heck, this early access release isn't going great." than "I'm going to maliciously convince every player to like the game even though it isn't good.")

Ultimately, the choice to release KSP2 in early access in this kind of state, with these kinds of specs, with those kinds of missing features, was inevitably going to be controversial. I don't think this is the fault of the developers themselves though. I think it's the fault of the conditions in which the game was developed, and the circumstances and difficult situations the developers have gone through. But if it's the fault of anyone, I'd probably blame the publishers, who choose things like release dates, pricing, announcements, and advertisement, and I don't think the individual developers had too much say in it (especially with how far the game was already delayed).

Another major contributing factor to this schism I feel has been lack of communication between the developers and the community before, during, and directly following launch, which I feel has mostly or entirely improved since then. This lack of communication did a lot of damage, convincing a lot of people that the developers were just trying to get a quick 50 bucks and a rise out of the KSP community. I genuinely do feel like things can be better now if we calmed down a bit about the state of KSP2 and listened to eachother and to the developers. Nate Simpson and his crew of dedicated and talented game developers genuinely seem like they're trying to interact with the community and make sure everyone's in the loop on all the stuff happening behind the scenes, and everyone involved seems genuinely passionate about their job, their project, the community, and the future.

 

When I bought this game, my ideas was, "if I buy this game now, not only will I save $10 in a few years, but also, I'll get to watch the game grow alongside me." My goal was to watch the development of the game, interact with it hands on as it grew, provide feedback when I can, and sit there and witness it become the game we've all been hoping for. I don't know what everyone else was expecting when they bought KSP2. I do know some people went in with the expectations it was a full, polished, addictive game the trailer promised which they could sink thousands of hours into. I don't mean to be blunt, but we all bought into a public early access alpha build. We shouldn't've expected something completely up to triple-A standards. While the communication issues I mentioned perhaps hindered our understanding of just how rough this game was going to be, I still feel like "early access" should be enough of an indicator as to how patient and tolerant we'd have to be.

I know a lot of people have expressed concerns relating to the future of the project, and don't anticipate the game fully reaching its promises. I, however, would like to note that Take Two, despite all their interesting and peculiar business strategies relating to KSP2, have indicated they're in this for the long run, and Nate's also indicated this project isn't dying any time soon, and has expressed confidence in the team's ability to (eventually) meet what they promised so many years ago. I don't anticipate this project's death. I don't expect it to be done any time soon, so I understand waiting a long time probably won't be super fun, but honestly, we kinda need to figure out this whole patience thing really quick. I don't think the KSP community as a whole is doing too great specifically because of this controversy.

 

I'm gonna be honest with y'all. A lot of comments on developers' updates have been short-tempered, cold, and all in all just kinda awful to the developers. This obviously doesn't include whatever's had to be removed by the moderators. I've read things on the KSP subreddit (which is currently down for some reason?) actively vilifying the developers (often specifically Nate since he's the face of the team), which I see to just be completely unfair. Some people are going to the point of accusing anyone who doesn't blame the developers for stealing $50 from you as a shill, which is truly an accusation of all time. (I swear to whatever you want me to swear to that, instead of being paid to say "KSP2 is kinda cool guys", I actually had to pay to say those words.) I've seen YouTube videos accusing KSP2 of being a permanent failure and a disgrace because of its rickety launch, and I find that really quite awful. I'm having fun with multiple aspects of KSP2, despite all its obvious yet temporary issues. I like spaceplanes now mostly because of KSP2's procedural wings.

I write this in the hopes that, maybe, just maybe, this post impacts the community slightly in such a way that helps us cool down and engage in civil discussion instead of arguing and bantering endlessly until we all get tired of hanging out here in this cool forum. I genuinely think the outlook for the forum's community as a whole, at least in present times (and maybe moreso a few months ago), is worse than the outlook for KSP2. At this point, the only thing we can do about KSP2 as a fanbase is to wait, listen, provide meaningful and constructive feedback for the developers to listen to, and be nice enough for the community to still be fun to hang out in once KSP2's all done. I'm probably overstating the threat to the forum community as a whole, and I don't think many people will fully leave the forums due to KSP2 controversy, but it sure isn't fun to sit through, and it would be a way more pleasant forum experience if we all just stuck together, waited patiently, and made sure to keep things civil and calm for the time being. We can panic if huge and bad news on the game's forecast comes.

 

(this took me an hour to write! i should go to bed)

 

TL;DR: Lads, lasses, everyone in between, can we for the love of heck cool down a little about the state of KSP2, and just wait a little?

[Gargamel]

@LittleBitMore, thank you for the post.    You obviously did put a lot of effort into it.   I know it was well received by the rest of the moderating team and even some of the staff.   It was pleasant to see a post encouraging such positivity during a quite rough patch in our community.   
 

As for what has or hasn’t been removed by moderators, well, we don’t normally discuss moderation, but I think there’s some confusion as to what we’ve been doing as a moderation team.    Let me state clearly that we, the moderators, are community members first and foremost.    We’re volunteers who loved this community enough that we decided to help maintain these forums as a great resource for discussion about the game we love, and scientific debate in general.    
 

We don’t care what you think about the game.     Our job as moderators is not to defend the game.   We fully encourage constructive criticism of the game.    Even if you don’t have a suggestion on how to fix something, merely pointing it out might spur the conversation that does come up with the solution.    
 

Even if you don’t have something technical to discuss, you still have an opinion of the game.    That is your opinion, and you have the full right to post it here.   Personally, and not speaking as a mod here, I was disappointed, disgusted, and appalled at the condition of the game upon release.   That’s just my opinion, and it’s not wrong.   Some may disagree with that, and civil discussion over those differences of opinion is something we, the moderators, encourage.    
 

But what we don’t encourage is people who intentionally bicker, attack and troll those with different opinions than theirs.   The moderators really don’t care what your position on an issue is, but we won’t stand for people attacking others because they’re different.    This has already been applied in a number of instances, regardless of the point of view of the members involved   

And we will absolutely not tolerate any flamebaiting or trolling.    Posting something to purely cause an argument is not something we do here.     It’s immature and should be left in the realms of 4chan and Reddit.    
 

Now I know it sounds like I’m laying down the law here (even though it’s already posted under our guidelines), and I might be a little bit, that’s not the type of post @LittleBitMore intended this thread to be.    We want you to know you should not have to worry about posting your opinion here on the forums.   Some discussion might occur, as reasonable minds can differ, but also, a reasonable mind can change their opinion on something.    
 

[Pat20999]

Yes.

[LittleBitMore]

Wow, okay, this post got a LOT more attention than I was expecting. Honestly I wrote this while sleep deprived and fully expected this to get ignored, but apparently I was wrong. Thanks for all the cool responses, and I'll try to reply to some of them here.

[insert break here where i stopped writing my reply to look closely at the responses]

actually, after going back and reading the replies, i don't know if i have the mental capacity for this, and i don't want to contribute to the bickering.

 

The point of my post wasn't to say "you guys are being bad, stop it, but you guys are good", it was more "this is how i see things and also our flamey bickering from either side should probably stop soon for pete's sake", but it probably wasn't interpreted this way. (That might be my fault, I have a communication disorder, and also, I was sleep deprived.) If you want me to go defend my views or whatever, you can directly ask me to do that, but I refuse to spontaneously do that because I specifically don't want to fan the flames (and, in the state the forums are in right now, saying "here's my opinion" or "here's a defense of my opinion" is inevitably fanning the flames, and this applies to both sides of the argument here)

The topic of this post was supposed to be about hopefully sharing my perspective, sharing my reasoning, advocating for a little more patience towards the developers so we can decide whether it's an absolute failure later; then, separately and more importantly, addressing this huge schism that KSP2 has driven into the community and hopefully provide a forum post where we can discuss in the replies civilly (specifically, without accusing the other side of "deriving enjoyment from poking others", or accusing the other side of being unable to comprehend reality and then promptly denying you're being toxic about it. both sides are at fault here.)

 

How I see it is the only way to cool down the forums fast is to stop perceiving the discussion on the response of KSP2 as a war zone. The 'other side' is not your sworn enemy. The 'other side' is not irrational or oblivious. The 'other side' is not just trying to get a rise out of you. At the end of the day, we're all passionate space nerds and gamers who wanted an exciting and fulfilling installment to the series. Nobody is fully satisfied with the current state of KSP2, and I understand this is causing some unrest and agitation. But, I mean. Come on, guys. Let's please cool down so we all can enjoy the forums in the same way we did a few years ago.

[Vanamonde]

2 hours ago, LittleBitMore said:

That might be my fault... 

It was not.

[Hotel26]

7 hours ago, HebaruSan said:

They'll stop when they get tired of it, which will happen when they're in enough users' ignore lists to stop getting responses.

Bully for you for mentioning this important tool.

[RocketRockington]

1 hour ago, Hotel26 said:

Bully for you for mentioning this important tool.

Unfortunately it doesn't work the way you wish it would, it's not very useful.  And I'm be 100% ok with people ignoring me if they don't like what I say - frankly I'd prefer that.    Plenty do like it.

[Cytauri]

@LittleBitMoreYou are a CHAD for writing this. I completely understand what you are talking about. I truly want the community to be happy at all time and I hope that more people can join too! The end goal I want is KSP 2 to be a full, fun game that everyone will like, veterans and newbies. I also want the old game to be still spoiled with the gifts of mods that can be revived from the dead or new mods (like Parallax 2.0) to be released.My message, adding on to LittleBitMore, to the community is to relax, give CONSTRUCTIVE not DESTRUCTIVE criticism to the devs so they can help us to that beautiful end goal, and keep loving our favorite little green men. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Cytauri

[moeggz]

So a few things. One a lot of subreddits are private right now, not just KSP (off topic but just a quick explanation, this is due to many subreddits and mods protesting drastic and sudden changes to the API)

And while yes the Reddit has generally been more negative than the forums in regards to KSP2, no people do not get called “shills” just for enjoying KSP2 (at least commonly.)

I love Kerbal Space Program. KSP2 is not in an acceptable state right now. The devs all seem like fine people. I’m not going to act like I have inside knowledge and play the blame game. Exactly what percentage is who’s fault doesn’t really matter right now, the game is a mess. There are some really cool and amazing parts of the game showing it’s a work of love (redesigned planets that still feel Kerbal, music/sound effects, procedural wings, etc) and some really puzzling bugs given the long development time.

People attacking and harassing is not ok. But negative feedback is not tearing the community apart. Negative feedback is as important as positive feedback. Without negative feedback, we’d still be reading non informative dev updates because it took negative feedback to convince the devs to change communication strategies to the more open communication style we have now that I think most prefer

And if we keep at it with constructive criticism, we might just get a comment soon on when to expect that “just missing for a brief period after launch”  fabled reentry heating…

[RocketRockington]

1 hour ago, moeggz said:

And if we keep at it with constructive criticism, we might just get a comment soon on when to expect that “just missing for a brief period after launch”  fabled reentry heating…

Actually if you check the current dev post, we got just that with a promise of more to come  - and most likely due to criticism.

 

 

[LittleBitMore]

1 hour ago, moeggz said:

And while yes the Reddit has generally been more negative than the forums in regards to KSP2, no people do not get called “shills” just for enjoying KSP2 (at least commonly.)

correct! I think I forgot to specify I read this sentiment only a few times, that's my bad, sorry

1 hour ago, moeggz said:

People attacking and harassing is not ok. But negative feedback is not tearing the community apart. Negative feedback is as important as positive feedback. Without negative feedback, we’d still be reading non informative dev updates because it took negative feedback to convince the devs to change communication strategies to the more open communication style we have now that I think most prefer

The attacking and harassing is what I was mentioning to be the community-threatening bit. I completely agree with you here, and I like the way you've phrased it.

1 hour ago, Cytauri said:

@LittleBitMoreYou are a CHAD for writing this.

this is the most confused i've been all day (what exactly did i do to deserve this title? what exactly does this title mean? i may never know!), but thanks for the compliment!

[Periple]

In my opinion the big problem with the discourse on this forum right now is the same people saying the same things over and over and over, regardless of the tone in which it's being said. That drowns out the people saying new and interesting things. Especially the devs, who have most new and interesting things to say about the game they're developing.

If this changed, fresh criticisms would get more attention and engagement too, instead of being reflexively dismissed as more whining or not even seen because the poster is on an ignore list. I wish there was a rule that you can only say the same thing three times!

[Alex76]

At first, I was also positive. But a lot of time has passed since the release of the game in early access. And nothing has changed! Only some empty promises. [snip]

Edited June 13, 2023 by Starhawk
Redacted by moderator

[GGG-GoodGuyGreg]

Whether we are Doom Posters, Overly Optimistic or in-between, let's not forget that we all want this game to live up to the initial promises and current roadmap.

 

I'm sorry to say, but the reality is that no single feature was added in several months, there is lot of performance optimization and fixes that are still left on the table (even for an EA, let alone a 50$ EA), their style of communication hasn't been doing the KSP2 team any favors either, so of course the Doom Posters were given much more "material" than the Overly Optimistic.

 

I do hope one day it's easier to be a KSP2 fan, but objectively we ain't there (yet).

Edited June 13, 2023 by GGG-GoodGuyGreg

[TLTay]

One side: "I'm not happy with this."

Other side: "You can't think or say that!"

 

Your post is basically telling people what to think or the thoughts they'd ought to be able to express (or not express). Very 2023 of you.

[Superluminal Gremlin]

45 minutes ago, TLTay said:

Very 2023

How about, perhaps 1984? 

 

In my un-KSP2'ed opinion (don't have it  )(take everything I say with an observes perspective), I might push the analogy that KSP 2 is possibly, maybe, just like a mod that just got released. Theres the core features, but there are a lot of bugs that take time to fix. Take a look at Neteas's (now amazingly glorious) FFT. There were bugs, sure they were not as bad as many in KSP 2, mainly graphics issues, but that's because it's a mod, not a whole game, the severity isn't going to be as large. Bugs happen and slip through. I remember myself fooling around in Unity cos it seemed fun, and I had a weird bug where if you walked to a raised platform that was just at the right height, you could spam jump then hold W and get absolutely yeeted. No idea why, but it wasn't intended.

My way of looking at KSP 2 is to be cautiously optimistic. I believe that one day all the features we were promised will come. KSP 2 had Covid and contract problems, and Covid alone caused a massive change in workplaces.

That's what I believe, and I certainly agree with calming down. Current roadmap, yes, as fast I want it to (Now, it sounds amazing), no, because that is unrealistic. 

 

[Periple]

4 hours ago, Dakitess said:

condensing what have been said multiple times

There's the rub -- it's all been said multiple times so at least I just want to tune it all out at this point! Not because I don't like what I'm hearing, but because there's nothing new there! 

[Scarecrow71]

[snip]

21 hours ago, LittleBitMore said:

actually, after going back and reading the replies, i don't know if i have the mental capacity for this, and i don't want to contribute to the bickering.

And yet, you not only started the thread while sleep-deprived (your words), you responded to the comments being made.

21 hours ago, LittleBitMore said:

advocating for a little more patience towards the developers so we can decide whether it's an absolute failure later

We've been patient.  For YEARS to this point.  Where are all the cool things they showed us 4 years ago?  Where are all the features they promised us?  What have they been doing for the last 4 years that made this game so broken upon release?  Why the slowed cadence of updates?  Why no hot-fixes?  Why no discussion of roadmap features?  Why the cherry-picking of questions for AMA's that only go towards positive answers?  The game, as it stands right now, IS an abject failure.  It is broken on so many levels and is, for some people, unplayable.  And the problem here is that those of us who are not happy with the game continue to be slapped down by mods and the overly-positive, being told that our opinions don't matter and that we need to be patient and that we should wait a little longer.  How much longer do we need to wait before we are allowed to have a voice?

[snip]

21 hours ago, LittleBitMore said:

How I see it is the only way to cool down the forums fast is to stop perceiving the discussion on the response of KSP2 as a war zone.

Threads like this one don't help do that, though.  Being constantly told that we are wrong, and that we need to be patient, and that we should give it more time doesn't help.  I can't speak for anyone but myself, but comments like those make me feel like my voice isn't important.  [snip] Being attacked for thinking KSP2 has a long way to go before it's playable makes me not want to be here.  See where I'm going with all that?  You use your side of the argument as a tool to advocate for peace without giving those on the other side the chance to speak.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Vanamonde

[Stephensan]

17 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Being attacked for thinking KSP2 has a long way to go before it's playable makes me not want to be here

lot of players left day one due to the issues due thinking it was going to be a game but with missing features and some bugs, a lot of players saw the issues due to literally not able to play the game due to "subpar" fps on top end hardware knew the time frame and return/left FOREVER, a lot of players don't want to wait years for a game.. And anyone that voices that opinion is the wrong cause "it get there when it gets there"..

Nicely saying that it is a failure of a game as of right now, worse than Battlefield 2042, or Hytale, that has affected THE  Name of Kerbal Space Program, causing both player bases of Ksp 1 and 2 to completely tank is not a laughing matter and shouldn't be attempted to be swept under the rug.

i haven't had a single moment that felt like this video 

it is the video shown with gameplay and everything but at .2 x speed and lower.. Sorry that isn't a game. Its a promise, and that isn't just saying it due to THINKING that this is the case, this is taking a step back and looking at everything at hand, and making a judgement in fairness for Gamers, CC's, Devs, and the Gamespace entirety.

 

And you KNOW it's really bad that typing kerbal space program 2 in youtube, and ONLY seeing videos from 2 months ago for actual gameplay, and then "newer" ones about TALKING about the game, without actually playing the game, and about the devs or what updates are going on.. WITH LITTLE actual new gameplay for "pages" is rather insane. I'm not saying there is any, but the VAST majority is talking about the game with old gameplay or just old gameplay.

I'm not bickering about "the devs did wrong", i rarely see people actually point their fingers at the devs, most of the time its pointing at the game and its faults that doesn't magically bounce back to the devs.

 

Games like this get heavily hindered when everything is positive 24/7 and has a realistically zero time frame.

• We get longer update cycles, for a smaller bit of transparency
• We get a chart of what major things are going to be added, but without a timeframe

that all leads to unknown times, and for the example i gave, "Looked what happened to hytale" when they gave zero realistic time frame, or kept pushing it back further and further to a point that we don't know when X is going to happen.
 

 The fan-based and the game itself died on the rock that it stood on with the hype train flag being flown for to many years.

The hyped got built up all the way to release with all the videos/devblogs showing amazing things, to then get thrown off without tracks or a way to clear the land trees etc. at bullet train speeds making the people inside of it feel the crash and the aftermath... that is where ksp 2 is at right now, its now at the stage of "Looking at the extensive damage and taking priority of how to fix it"

 

being attacked after thinking for many weeks / day / months about this overall there is only very few "feelings" you can be getting out of this "disaster", but in most ways it is wrong and removed to think that it has been a failure with a huge crash.

this is just a rambling i only had 15 minutes to do this and i have to leave, I'm already quite tired today so this might be "wrong" with what i was trying to say.

Think objectively and see it from an advantage point above just the "ecosystem" and you can see the nightmare that has be told in the books of shame.

 

[Pthigrivi]

I'll be honest Im just not interested in the repetitive bickering. I've also never been particularly interested in divining the court politics of a game studio or what that may or may not portend for the future. Not that its not important, I just don't think anything about it is knowable so there doesn't seem to me much value in speculating. I loved this board because while there were a great many people who loved KSP1 they also had a lot of serious critiques. For the most part people were able to voice those critiques in a constructive way and disagree or not there was a lot of productive conversation about it and how the game could get better and better. Right now KSP2 is in pretty rough shape and given bugs and my machine I just can't dig into it in a way that allows me to give good feedback. Im pretty hopeful though in the next update or two that will improve. Im especially interested in Science because thats a real gameplay dynamic and mechanics are my jam. 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Pthigrivi

[Periple]

46 minutes ago, Stephensan said:

lot of players left day one due to the issues due thinking it was going to be a game but with missing features and some bugs, a lot of players saw the issues due to literally not able to play the game due to "subpar" fps on top end hardware knew the time frame and return/left FOREVER, a lot of players don't want to wait years for a game.. And anyone that voices that opinion is the wrong cause "it get there when it gets there"..

The problem is that no amount of complaining, venting, raising valid criticisms, ranting, calling for Nate's head on a plate, complaining about moderation, complaining about other forum members complaining, etc, will make the least bit of difference. It will get there when it gets there, and if it won't, it won't.

I just don't see the point! You're using a lot of time and emotional energy on something that won't make any difference other than to annoy people who would rather be talking about something else, and clearly is making you miserable. Why do you bother? If you think KSP2 is unsalvageable and you've wrung out all the enjoyment you can get out of KSP1, why not just walk away and go do something else? We only have so much time allotted to us on this mortal coil, is complaining about a computer game really the best use you can think of to make of it?

[TickleMyMary]

5 hours ago, Periple said:

The problem is that no amount of complaining, venting, raising valid criticisms, ranting, calling for Nate's head on a plate, complaining about moderation, complaining about other forum members complaining, etc, will make the least bit of difference.

I honestly beg to differ... The only reason we're getting comms at the level we are now is because of the discontent in the few posts that we had been getting, it's directly addressed in one of the posts. I'm not saying let loose and say whatever you please but any concerns that people do or do not have should be taken seriously, and, in turn, those concerns should be conveyed in a (mostly) civil manner. If that is all happening then I don't see the issue, regardless of whether the same issue is brought up multiple times.

 

5 hours ago, Periple said:

I just don't see the point! You're using a lot of time and emotional energy on something that won't make any difference

I agree... I find people doing that in order to make others change their mind or convince them not to voice their concerns equally as nonsensical. 

 

5 hours ago, Periple said:

 annoy people who would rather be talking about something else

Yet, here we are... In another thread dedicated to the issue that is telling people that think differently, to think differently.

 

5 hours ago, Periple said:

why not just walk away and go do something else? 

I can't speak for other users but, I have walked away from it personally. I'm only interacting with the forums for news and discussion I'm interested in. KSP2 just isn't on my radar as a playable product right now.

 

5 hours ago, Periple said:

 It will get there when it gets there, and if it won't, it won't.

More than agree... I hope that it does but I don't think we'll ever see what we were initially shown. 

C'est la vie.

Edited June 13, 2023 by TickleMyMary

[Vanamonde]

Some comments removed. Thread re-opened. Please keep discussions polite and on-topic. 

[Sylvi Fisthaug]

@LittleBitMore Thank you for writing this! 

I am still sad that most replies under here does not fit under the umbrella named "constructive critiscism" of neither your post, nor the game. 
A lot of those beautiful, sleep deprived words from a state of emotion really went lost in all that translation. 

I came to these forums shortly after I bought KSP2 in March sometime, and I don't always like to be a part of this community.

In a lot of the replies here I don't see "I want to enjoy the game, but this and this bug..." or "I love how beautiful the sunrise is but I'm getting 5 fps and this is annoying" or "I feel the $50 asking price for an EA is a bit stiff". 

I see the same arguments, but wrapped around a brick that is time and time again thrown into the windows of the offices in Seattle. Throwing bricks through winows only leads the people inside to bar the windows. Also there will probably be some people turning up on the streets outside who strongly disagree to the throwing of said bricks, and then you've got an argument that nobody wants to take part in, and yaddiyaddiyaddi you get my point.

All I see is someone beating the dead horse over and over again (not my words, stolen from someplace on these forums), and of course someone who percieves themselves as a shining knight of light and brilliance have to come from the darkness and say "you are awful for throwing those bricks, and I also disagree with what you wrote on the notes wrapped around them!"

There definitely is people on both sides of this raging wildfire here that should stop "fanning the flames" as you wrote in your post, @LittleBitMore. I have probably (definitely) responded to some posts here that I shouldn't, and have probably (yes, definitely) written some words I shouldn't. Some of those words also got that infamous "[snip]"

If you don't want your critiscism to turn into bickering where some random person on the internet belittles you of your opinion, try wrapping that opinion into some nice words. Give critiscism to the developers (and indeed, there should be critiscism delivered regarding the state of the game and what the dev posts were written about in the beginning) by talking about something you like about KSP2, list all the things you think should be better (which indeed is a lot of things), and then finish off on a good vibe of some sort. 

Two days ago I got so fed up by playing KSP2 that I quit, and I haven't touched it since. The VAB is not a nice place to be right now. I have looked in the bug reports sections to see if my bugs have been reported, and hung out in the KSP2_general channel on the discord where our, as of right now, only bug hunter @Anth12 is a regular. In the chat we talk about the state of the game, how much we'd like it to be better and lots of other stuff, and it is generally a very nice place to be. But to make a point of this little digression, about once or twice a day, someone just posts a screenshot of the player count, like some kind of a "gotcha" (not my words). Of course we will belittle the fiftysixth person to post that. We have seen it before and we are tired of debating it or defending it. 

The same way some of you are tired of defending your opinion from probably people like me. But I truly just strive to make this forum a better place, because stating the same tired and old arguments about the game being bad, and trolling or flamebaiting the people who do this, only makes it a lesser place to be in.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Sylvi Fisthaug

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

2 hours ago, Vanamonde said:

Some comments removed.

Judging from the time stamps from OP to the various posts above yours... you had your work cut out for you.

How many trucks to haul away all that phlegm?

Edited June 13, 2023 by JoeSchmuckatelli