hi, can we all cool down just a little? genuinely?

[Sirad]

3 minutes ago, BechMeister said:

Maybe - but maybe its directed at the wrong place.

That will, most likely be true.

I think the proper Place to vent is where it was purchased.

 

 

 

[Vanamonde]

Some excessively cranky posts removed. 

[Haustvindr]

17 hours ago, BechMeister said:

I guess I just want to say that it seems a lot of new players are in fact enjoying KSP2 - and its the KSP1 veterans that are most angry with the state of the game. (thats just my observation)

If you review a little the forum, you'll find that most KSP1 veterans are just chilling around. Generally speaking, they will prefer to spend their energy on important things like playing or catching bugs (and in RealLife(tm) of course) than participating on useless flame wars. Also most of them know what an EA program is about.

When the salt trolls eventually die down, they will start thawing from their hibernation and become more noticeable.

I'd say that the most angry ones are those that are accostumed to see "EA" tags used as marketing strats. There's an endless stream of mostly finished games with the "EA" tag, and they're using it for the little oompf in initial (full-release) sales due to the mouth-to-mouth effect (or should I say finger-to-eye in social media). Even if it is not a lot of push, it is basically cost-free to do, and in small to mid size games it can be absolutely noticeable, and it could be the difference between being known or not... and nobody buys unknown things. It is becoming the modern equivalent of telling the world "hey, look here, we're making a game".

When a real EA program appears, one that really want to involve people sending feedbak and helping to shape the game, those people are forced to face a reality check. And generally speaking, people don't really like that.

[BechMeister]

6 minutes ago, Haustvindr said:

When a real EA program appears, one that really want to involve people sending feedbak and helping to shape the game, those people are forced to face a reality check. And generally speaking, people don't really like that.

I think you hit the hammer on the nail right here. Its quite funny in  a way... I stopped playing EA games because of the things you're mentioning. It was one of the reasons i broke my personal vows not to buy EA games. That the atmosphere around the game was that developer were seeking feedback and the benefits of EA.

 

8 minutes ago, Haustvindr said:

If you review a little the forum, you'll find that most KSP1 veterans are just chilling around.

Don't get me wrong - I have actually not noticed there were any salt here on the forum before this post. Its mostly people making youtube rants etc. were I've seen the ranting. I was really pleasant surprised to see a "old school" forum this healthy in 2023. I joked about it to a few of my friends saying its probably because most people playing KSP and in this forum is from the time were this was the way you founded community around niché subjects.

In fact - one of the reasons I have now clocked 350h in KPS2 since launch is the support, encouragement and engagement in my mission report... also its amazing how many bugs just surfaces when you play the game and do stuff... players always do things that is hard to simulate and or find because you many not think of trying it when you designed the tools.

I've been a long time eve player - and if there is one thing that i really like about eve too, its how the community always finds ways to use the tools the developers makes that the developers never anticipated x) 

Any way... I only tuned in here because I found it interesting that others had such a different level of expectation than I. Especially when you consider that I was just a casual viewer of the IP before buying KSP2 - which to me would suggest that I should have had a lesser  understanding of what the product would have been than some one who has been following it with keen interest for a long while. 

[ChrisShourai]

On 6/14/2023 at 5:27 PM, Dakota said:

Sure. Look out for this Friday's Dev Update for some new science info.

 

On 6/16/2023 at 1:37 PM, Alexoff said:

I thought we would see something more definite than "there will be a new science transfer system, new missions, new science parts, a new techtree". This is where the dissatisfaction of the fans comes from.

This is why I (and I assume many others) are so frustrated. The new science info was zero new info, just an update on bugs and repeated statement of features we already got.

Showing a science collecting animation rather than the state of the tech tree (photo) or new science parts breakdown or a dev post highlighting the milestone features or processes or anything really for all of us to go “wow!” “Ahhhh!” and get hyped for the day it goes online in EA is just aggravating (for me anyways, can’t speak for everyone of course), especially considering it’s literally the next big update so I have to assume there’s a ton of great info/screens/vids you could show to your paying EA customers who are eagerly awaiting the fruits of their investment.

The intention of saying the above isn’t to bash the team at all,  just trying to be clear on where I personally (and where I think others too from reading posts) are frustrated the most with, in the hopes some better open development communication shows up in the future. I know you don’t have StarCitizens budget for weekly deep dives, but compared to most major EA games in dev, KSP2 appears to have a shocking lack of fun and visually awesome development info to share with the paying community. You guys had MANY awesome dev blogs just prior to EA release with screens and explanations etc. What happened to that level of depth?

Anyways, I appreciate anyone listening, and regardless of my above statements I wish all the power to the team to get this game launched.

[Alexoff]

3 hours ago, ChrisShourai said:

You guys had MANY awesome dev blogs just prior to EA release with screens and explanations etc. What happened to that level of depth?

In fact, a lot of blogs were filmed in the editor, which I asked the question many times - why not from the game itself? We didn't know about early access then, but now it became clear that the pre-alpha build of the game simply didn't exist, it was started to be assembled shortly before the release. Apparently, science also exists in the form of separate animations, concepts and texts on several developers' computers, and it is still far from implementation into the game and testing.

[K33N]

Honestly, it's a hugely passionate community that is collectively working their way through the stages of grief.

If anything, it's extremely impressive that it is as civil as it has been.

[Wheehaw Kerman]

21 hours ago, K33N said:

Honestly, it's a hugely passionate community that is collectively working their way through the stages of grief.

If anything, it's extremely impressive that it is as civil as it has been.

Premature grief, arguably.  Just spent an hour or so poking around with Patch 3.  Things are noticeably better: framerates, usability of the VAB, getting around Map View (anybody notice the filters?  Are they new?), decoupling not resulting in loss of vessel, and so forth.  I expect this trend will continue, the moaning will begin to subside, and everybody will eventually pretend their meltdowns never happened and get around to enjoying the game.

[Dakota]

52 minutes ago, Wheehaw Kerman said:

I expect this trend will continue

With the direction we're moving, this is my hope as well. 

Specifically highlighting this:

On 6/14/2023 at 2:28 PM, Dakota said:

Trust is an easy thing to break and it's often incredibly difficult to build back up that relationship to it's original state. For those people, we're doing our best to build up that trust again. There's always the possibility that sometimes we have to share bad news, but our goal is for the good news to always outweigh the bad. My hope is that, in the future, you can look back on these past few months and see how much progress we've made towards changing your mind.

 

[Turbo Ben]

3 hours ago, Wheehaw Kerman said:

Premature grief, arguably.  Just spent an hour or so poking around with Patch 3.  Things are noticeably better: framerates, usability of the VAB, getting around Map View (anybody notice the filters?  Are they new?), decoupling not resulting in loss of vessel, and so forth.  I expect this trend will continue, the moaning will begin to subside, and everybody will eventually pretend their meltdowns never happened and get around to enjoying the game.

Glad patch 3 is working out for you. For me it broke joystick control. Massive step backwards in playability for me, I uninstalled again after 15 minutes.

I suspect the moaning will begin to subside as more like me give up and move on.

[moeggz]

On 6/14/2023 at 3:28 PM, Dakota said:

Trust is an easy thing to break and it's often incredibly difficult to build back up that relationship to it's original state. For those people, we're doing our best to build up that trust again.

[snip]

Appreciate you all,
Dakota

 

I want to highlight that all of your communications (and honestly every IG employee who has commented here or elsewhere in the KSP space) is appreciated and you all have always communicated in a very respectful manner. 

I take you all at your word that you are fans of KSP, and are honest people trying to make a great game. Your hard work is appreciated and there are several little details in KSP2 that show it is a work of love.

But the decisions in regards to the publishing side of the game (EA launch in the state it was in, nearly full game price tag, discount before any major progress on the roadmap) have ruined my hope for this project. I’m not trying to point any fingers, I just genuinely feel like the publishing side (not developers, not CM, not QA) has soured too many fans too much and it’s past the breaking point. 
I’ve flipped like 6 times in four months from optimistic to critical and I feel I have landed firmly on the critical side (again due to the publishing decisions, not any of the decisions made by any employee who has ever interacted with the community.)

I only reply to say that if all of your hard work in rebuilding trust is not enough and we never see KSP2 realized as we all want it’s not your fault and all of you who genuinely did your best are appreciated; Take Two is who burned the trust of the community.

With that I’m out, just wanted to say thanks before I left. If you all are able to somehow keep the funding long enough to bring the game around I’ll be back grateful to have been wrong.

[Wheehaw Kerman]

1 hour ago, Turbo Ben said:

Glad patch 3 is working out for you. For me it broke joystick control. Massive step backwards in playability for me, I uninstalled again after 15 minutes.

I suspect the moaning will begin to subside as more like me give up and move on.

Be a shame if you quit.  Things can only get better.  If you want some hope, look at KSP2 EA at 4 months versus KSP at four months…

[Sovetskysoyuz]

2 hours ago, Turbo Ben said:

Glad patch 3 is working out for you. For me it broke joystick control. Massive step backwards in playability for me, I uninstalled again after 15 minutes.

I suspect the moaning will begin to subside as more like me give up and move on.

What happened to the joystick control? It was already pretty barebones to begin with.

[Turbo Ben]

5 hours ago, Wheehaw Kerman said:

Be a shame if you quit.  Things can only get better.  If you want some hope, look at KSP2 EA at 4 months versus KSP at four months…

I admire your optimism, but losing joystick control is a deal breaker for me. I guess I was lucky that it ever worked, but I can't go back to using the keyboard for flight controls. It's already been said that joystick control isn't a priority, so I'm not expecting to get it back any time soon. I wasn't around for KSP1 EA, I came in at 1.7, but I know enough about early KSP1 to know it can't be compared. KSP2 has a full studio of professional developers, they've had 4 years and it's not like they didn't have a good template to start from. How much did they charge for KSP1 EA?

4 hours ago, Sovetskysoyuz said:

What happened to the joystick control? It was already pretty barebones to begin with.

I had pitch and roll control working, with yaw and throttle mapped to a hat switch. Not perfect but good enough. Patch 3 broke pitch and roll.

[Wheehaw Kerman]

2 hours ago, Turbo Ben said:

I admire your optimism, but losing joystick control is a deal breaker for me. I guess I was lucky that it ever worked, but I can't go back to using the keyboard for flight controls. It's already been said that joystick control isn't a priority, so I'm not expecting to get it back any time soon. I wasn't around for KSP1 EA, I came in at 1.7, but I know enough about early KSP1 to know it can't be compared. KSP2 has a full studio of professional developers, they've had 4 years and it's not like they didn't have a good template to start from. How much did they charge for KSP1 EA?

I had pitch and roll control working, with yaw and throttle mapped to a hat switch. Not perfect but good enough. Patch 3 broke pitch and roll.

Well, your call.  

[Periple]

3 hours ago, Turbo Ben said:

It's already been said that joystick control isn't a priority

Who said that?

In any case since KSP2 is going to be released on consoles, controller support will absolutely be a priority. It may not be a priority now because there are bugs to fix and optimizations to ... optimize, but they won't be able to release on consoles without it.

[Turbo Ben]

19 minutes ago, Periple said:

Who said that?

In any case since KSP2 is going to be released on consoles, controller support will absolutely be a priority. It may not be a priority now because there are bugs to fix and optimizations to ... optimize, but they won't be able to release on consoles without it.

Can't remember where I saw it, but someone (dev or community manager) said that hotas support will be after 1.0 release. Console will be long after 1.0 release, so it could be years before joystick is working again.

[Periple]

26 minutes ago, Turbo Ben said:

Can't remember where I saw it, but someone (dev or community manager) said that hotas support will be after 1.0 release. Console will be long after 1.0 release, so it could be years before joystick is working again.

I can believe that for full HOTAS support, but I'd be shocked if it takes that long for controller support. 

(With controller support you can surely use a HOTAS, you just might need to use an emulator to make the game think it's a controller.)

[Dakota]

14 hours ago, moeggz said:

I want to highlight that all of your communications (and honestly every IG employee who has commented here or elsewhere in the KSP space) is appreciated and you all have always communicated in a very respectful manner. 

I take you all at your word that you are fans of KSP, and are honest people trying to make a great game. Your hard work is appreciated and there are several little details in KSP2 that show it is a work of love.

But the decisions in regards to the publishing side of the game (EA launch in the state it was in, nearly full game price tag, discount before any major progress on the roadmap) have ruined my hope for this project. I’m not trying to point any fingers, I just genuinely feel like the publishing side (not developers, not CM, not QA) has soured too many fans too much and it’s past the breaking point. 
I’ve flipped like 6 times in four months from optimistic to critical and I feel I have landed firmly on the critical side (again due to the publishing decisions, not any of the decisions made by any employee who has ever interacted with the community.)

I only reply to say that if all of your hard work in rebuilding trust is not enough and we never see KSP2 realized as we all want it’s not your fault and all of you who genuinely did your best are appreciated; Take Two is who burned the trust of the community.

With that I’m out, just wanted to say thanks before I left. If you all are able to somehow keep the funding long enough to bring the game around I’ll be back grateful to have been wrong.

Thanks for your kind words - it means a lot. This definitely matches the level of mutual respect that I advocated for a few pages ago. Appreciate you keeping up with us on this journey and hope to see you around as we reach our EA milestones.

[Socraticat]

 

[shinya]

On 6/23/2023 at 12:27 AM, Dakota said:

you can look back on these past few months and see how much progress we've made towards changing your mind.

As someone who has been waiting for the game to be fixed before buying it, it has indeed changed my mind... negatively though. I'm not even sure I'll buy the game after all this at this point.

[Vanamonde]

Stick to the topic, please. Some comments removed. 

[Kerbalsaurus]

Please? Is such a shame to see this vibrant community full of so many bright people be torn apart by something as silly and mundane as two versions of a game.

[The Aziz]

Anyone wanna grab a popcorn?

[Spicat]

You will find your happiness here: