OPM or GPP?

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

Hey, guys. Been killing time waiting for the expansion (constantly stalking the Challenges subforum; lookin' for good ones), and I feel like I need some new horizons; so to speak. It's been about 2,500 hours with the stock game (and nothing really left to accomplish accept a proper Grand Tour), and I'd like to see what else is out there. I've heard the names of other planets and moons enough times that I'm definitely interested. So I was curious which route you guys would go, OPM or GPP? At this point, I'm leaning towards OPM. It looks like it can just be added on top of an existing game; which appeals to me. However, GPP sounds pretty awesome as well. I know I might need a mod or 2 (like better timewarp for the outer planets), but I'd like to keep my game as stock as possible. Speaking of which, I play without info mods or doing any calculations, so I'm wondering if that would still be possible. Basically, guesstimating  my rocket based on distance and size of body, payload, etc (part of the reason I've been reluctant to add planets: I know the stock worlds pretty well by now, and adding new ones will sort of put me back to square one). Anyway, curious to hear what you guys think. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Cpt Kerbalkrunch

[joacobanfield]

You can have both. In the GPP thread there is a mod that adds the OPM planets orbiting around Grannus.

[Human Person]

GPP and OPM work perfectly together, you don‘t have to choose.

On the other hand: If you really want to change your game, You should give RSS and RO a try. It‘s time consunming and you have to troubleshoot a few mods here and there but it‘s definitely worth it

Edited November 27, 2017 by Physics Student

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

I didn't realize they could be used together. That sounds like a pretty radical change. Not sure how many planets and moons, but I'm gonna guess it's a lot. Would sort of be like starting all over; but maybe that's a good thing. Any mods you know of that absolutely cannot be done without (at least in your opinion)?

[Human Person]

1 minute ago, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

Any mods you know of that absolutely cannot be done without (at least in your opinion)?

Transfer window planer

Kerbak alarm clock

MechJeb

Infernal Rpnotics

Visual enhancement Mods

Better Time Warp (you definitely want this when playing OPM)

 

[OhioBob]

@Cpt Kerbalkrunch, as you said, OPM is an expansion to the stock system, adding four outer planets and eleven moons.  That brings the total number of celestial bodies in the game to 32 (including the sun).

GPP replaces the stock system entirely with a new set of planets and moons, and a new home world, Gael.  Although Gael looks different, it's the same size with virtually the same gravity and atmosphere as Kerbin.  It also has two moons, though with fewer biomes.  The only thing that makes missions launched from Gael much different than Kerbin is that KSC is at about 9 degrees north latitude, which introduces some new difficulty into the game.  GPP has a total of 31 celestial bodies (including two stars), so it's about the same size as Stock + OPM.  As an option, OPM can be added as a planetary system around the second star, Grannus, which is a small red dwarf.

I would say the big difference between OPM and GPP is that the OPM bodies are all far from the home world.  So if you are adding it for new places to go visit, be prepared for long missions that will take years to complete.  GPP, on the other hand, will give you several nearby places that you can start visiting very soon with short trips.  You'll be able to delve into something completely new and unexplored without having to undertake long missions.  So it's really more just a matter of what appeals to you the most.

Of course when you install both GPP and OPM, the OPM planets are really far away around another star, taking decades to get there where you'll be cut off from any support from the home world.

As far as mods go, the ones I consider most essential are:

• Kerbal Engineer Redux
• Kerbal Alarm Clock
• Precise Node (or Precise Maneuver)
• Transfer Window Planner

And if you decide to play GPP, there are several optional mods that are recommended.  Some of these are packaged with GPP and others you have to download separately.  Just be sure to follow the instruction carefully.  GPP is also on CKAN if you use that.  I definitely suggest the environmental enhancements if your computer can handle it.

If you add OPM, make sure you use OPM_Galileo, which is updated for KSP 1.3.1.  The original OPM is out of date.

 

Edited November 27, 2017 by OhioBob

[OhioBob]

Something you can try doing for a challenge is increasing the size of the system.  GPP is set up very nicely for this using Galileo's Rescale configs.  I like the 2.5x size because it can be played using all stock parts (no need to mod the parts as is required in real scale), but increases the delta-v requirements just enough that rockets and spacecraft take on a much more lifelike design and appearance.  No more being able to get to orbit on one large liquid fuel stage.  Generally speaking, you can expect to use two stages to get to low orbit, and three stages to escape orbit.

[NSEP]

If you want to play with an amplified experience, go for OPM. If you want explore a new universe, go for Galileo.

I recommend Galileo if the stock system got bland.

[MinimalMinmus]

If you choose OPM, do not forget OPM-VO, it makes the bodies of the mod with an atmosphere gorgeous.

[Sigma88]

2 hours ago, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

I feel like I need some new horizons

I think that's already a very good choice!

 

 

[Ultimate Steve]

4 hours ago, Sigma88 said:

I think that's already a very good choice!

 

 

I was just about to say that!

NH is great, and I haven't even gone outside of the Sonnah system yet (playing with BARIS). Lots of nearby science available, the first moon is significantly nearer and cheaper to go to (DV wise) but is probably harder to get to difficulty wise.

[MinimalMinmus]

2 hours ago, Ultimate Steve said:

I was just about to say that!

NH is great, and I haven't even gone outside of the Sonnah system yet (playing with BARIS). Lots of nearby science available, the first moon is significantly nearer and cheaper to go to (DV wise) but is probably harder to get to difficulty wise.

Well, if you want a challenge, Ernus is nothing short of ridiculous. You thought Moho's dV budget was huge? How about a dense ball of rock 3 times closer to Kerbol?

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

Sorry about the delayed response. Work got crazy. Wanted to say thanks to all for the advice and feedback. I hadn't realized the 2 planet packs could coexist until now. When @joacobanfield said the OPM planets would orbit Grannus, I actually thought it was probably a gas giant. When @OhioBob explained what it was, I think they convinced me to try both together. The thought of a set of planets orbiting a second star sounds extremely cool. And I'll check out @MinimalMinmus's suggestion as well. I'm not familiar with OPM-VO. I'll definitely take a look, though. And the New Horizons sounds intriguing. I don't know anything about it, but you guys make it sound pretty cool. I'll have to do some investigating when I get home. Thanks, again.

[Vanamonde]

Modding question moved to the modding subforum. 

[Geschosskopf]

4 hours ago, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

Sorry about the delayed response. Work got crazy. Wanted to say thanks to all for the advice and feedback. I hadn't realized the 2 planet packs could coexist until now. When @joacobanfield said the OPM planets would orbit Grannus, I actually thought it was probably a gas giant. When @OhioBob explained what it was, I think they convinced me to try both together. The thought of a set of planets orbiting a second star sounds extremely cool. And I'll check out @MinimalMinmus's suggestion as well. I'm not familiar with OPM-VO. I'll definitely take a look, though. And the New Horizons sounds intriguing. I don't know anything about it, but you guys make it sound pretty cool. I'll have to do some investigating when I get home. Thanks, again.

I've never played GPP (that's probably next on my list).  But I have done OPM added to the stock system.  OPM is totally awesome (I think it should be stock).  But as others have mentioned, the OPM planets are FAR, FAR, FAR away.  I imagine that if you add them to GPP, they'd also still be very, very far away.

That sheer distance means that travel times are measured in decades, at least with conventional (LFO and nuke) engines.   You can get there faster with mid-term future-style engines, but it's still quite a few years 1-way.  This means that if you want to do anything meaningful at any of the OPM planets before the next update breaks your save, you have to warp through years-to-decades of time at one go.  Which means you pretty much must completely ignore everything from Jool inwards, except for the bare minimums to establish relays, and (if doing this in career) some simple probes to get the science necessary to go to the outer planets.

For this reason, it might be better NOT to mix GPP and OPM, at least your 1st time in GPP.  If you want to see the OPM stuff, you'll have to ignore all the cool new stuff close to hand in GPP.  Or vice versa.  IOW, I'd only use GPP and OPM together if I'd already been everywhere in GPP and was as bored with it as you already are with the stock system.

If you go with OPM, you will of course need to load up on mods appropriate to such distances.  If you use life support, you'll need a Kerbal-freezer for sure.  You'll also need (or at least find desirable) some vacuum engine mod that gives you better travel times.  Also, you'll need nuclear reactors and bigger RTGs, and such things to be able to keep the lights on way out there in the dark.  And you'll have to do something about communications.  Either get mods that provide MUCH bigger relay antennae than stock, or increase the DSN range and signal strength substantially in the advanced settings when creating the game, or both.

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

7 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

I've never played GPP (that's probably next on my list).  But I have done OPM added to the stock system.  OPM is totally awesome (I think it should be stock).  But as others have mentioned, the OPM planets are FAR, FAR, FAR away.  I imagine that if you add them to GPP, they'd also still be very, very far away.

That sheer distance means that travel times are measured in decades, at least with conventional (LFO and nuke) engines.   You can get there faster with mid-term future-style engines, but it's still quite a few years 1-way.  This means that if you want to do anything meaningful at any of the OPM planets before the next update breaks your save, you have to warp through years-to-decades of time at one go.  Which means you pretty much must completely ignore everything from Jool inwards, except for the bare minimums to establish relays, and (if doing this in career) some simple probes to get the science necessary to go to the outer planets.

That was sort of the reason I was originally leaning toward OPM. From what understand, Eeloo gets moved, but everything else stays the same. I have tons of infrastructure around Jool's moons, so I thought it would be a good jumping-off point. It takes forever to swing around of course, bit I figured each time a window opened I could send a few more ships to each planet. Not sure if that's entirely feasible, since I've never tried, but I figured with Jool's huge gravity well (not to mention Tylo and Laythe if I need them) that the transfers would be pretty easy. Just a whole 'lotta warpin'. I would obviously go with the better timewarp mod. Nothing really left to do in my older career game, so I wouldn't much care about the inner planets. Power would obviously need to be addressed but, as for communication, I would mostly just ignore it. Definitely not goin' all that way to send probes. Everything will be manned. If I need to make an orbital scan for ore, I'll make use (finally) of the Mk1-2's remote pilot feature. It'd be cool to actually get to use it. Mods I want to keep to an absolute minimum. I'm gonna try to continue my method of "flying blind" without knowing any of stats but, if it gets too tedious with all the trial and error, I may finally give in and install KER. It would definitely be interesting (not to mention helpful) to finally know the d/v and TWR for my ships. I'll see how it goes.

Of course, all this was before hearing more about GPP. It really does sound awesome. And I have several copies of KSP currently, so I'm not worried about updates. Plus, they've already said MH requires the 1.4 update. With them working on both, I don't think we'll see them before April or even May. Which is part of the reason I wanna change things up. Getting antsy while while waiting for the expansion.

And one last thing, did some research on GPP last night (and it really does sound awesome), but I didn't get to New Horizons. That sounds intriguing as well, so I'd like to learn more. Anyway, thanks for the input.

[OhioBob]

On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 8:55 AM, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

I have tons of infrastructure around Jool's moons, so I thought it would be a good jumping-off point. It takes forever to swing around of course, bit I figured each time a window opened I could send a few more ships to each planet. Not sure if that's entirely feasible, since I've never tried, but I figured with Jool's huge gravity well (not to mention Tylo and Laythe if I need them) that the transfers would be pretty easy. Just a whole 'lotta warpin'.

One problem with this, which you allude to, is that the time between favorable launch window will be extreme.  When departing from Kerbin you'll have launch windows to each of the outer planets about once every year.  This is because Kerbin is orbiting really quickly in comparison to the outer planets, so it catches up with them in a relatively short amount of time.  Proper phase angle alignments occur frequently.

Jool on the other hand is a slow orbiting planet, so it takes a long time to catch up the outer planets.  Proper phase angle alignments will occur very infrequently.  The time between launch windows can be measured by the synodic period.  The synodic period between Jool and each of the OPM planets is about,

Sarnus - 19 years
Urlum - 13 years
Neidon - 12 years
Plock - 12 years

By the way, GPP is in the process of releasing an update.  If you plan to download it, make sure you get version 1.5.88.
 

Edited December 6, 2017 by OhioBob

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

Thanks, @OhioBob. All good info again. Much appreciated.

Those are some tough windows, but I guess it's about what I figured. It looks like, if I can get the timing right, that they would open one after another. I was planning on the "go big or go home" approach, with a convoy of ships to each planet. That would obviously mean a veritable flotilla of ships heading for Jool at the same time; some of which would need to refuel. And if anything went wrong after the transfers I'd pretty much be screwed. I may have to rethink it and launch direct from Kerbin. Not too sure at this point. Just nice to be trying to figure out unknown worlds again. I'm already excited. And when I saw that the Pluto analog can be a binary system, I could hardly wait. I really wanna see what it looks like; and how you go about a landing. Should be a lot of fun.

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

Got a couple of ships headed for Plock-Karen. What's 80 years to an adventurer like myself?

 

 

Joking aside, I'm pretty excited. Been a long time since I saw a new planet. The transfer burn wasn't anywhere near as bad as I thought it would be. The journey, on the other hand, is lookin' pretty brutal. You guys weren't kidding when you said Better Timewarp was mandatory. Only other mods are visuals and SigmaBinary. Flying blind, as usual, so this should be interesting.

[Geschosskopf]

13 hours ago, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

That was sort of the reason I was originally leaning toward OPM. From what understand, Eeloo gets moved, but everything else stays the same.

Yup, Eeloo becomes the 3rd moon of Sarnus and is the only really viable source of fuel in that system, so is roughly twice as far from the sun as it is in stock.  It's also rather bigger, with higher gravity.

 

13 hours ago, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

I have tons of infrastructure around Jool's moons, so I thought it would be a good jumping-off point.

What you save in dV requirements by starting from Jool you lose in time.  @OhioBob mentioned the long times between transfer windows, but it's actually worse than that.  A minimum dV Hohmann transfer from Jool to Sarnus would take about as long as from Kerbin because such a trip would cover about 1/2 Jool's orbit.  Jool's orbital period (from the wiki) is a bit over 10 years, so this trip would take about 6 years.  You can get there from Kerbin in about 8, and do so every year.

And the difference gets worse from there on out, because really and truly, Jool isn't all that much closer to the OPM planets than Kerbin (measured radially).  Sarnus is twice as far from the sun as Jool, Urlum is about 4x, and it gets Keplerianly worse from there on out.  It's really a shock the 1st time you open the game with OPM and have to zoom out so far in the tracking station to see Plock that Jool looks like Moho.

 

The main problem with using Jool, however, is that the infrastructure there will have to be maintained for decades.  Supply runs, crew rotations, resource production, etc., all of which will take your active involvement in real time.  And while you're in real time, your stuff going to the outer planets makes no measurable progress.  When you have OPM, Jool is an "inner planet".  You simply can't take the time to manage any bases from there inwards if you ever want to see the stuff beyond.

There are a few add-on mods for OPM.   @Sigma88 made OPM-Tilt that stands the whole Urlum system on edge like the real Uranus.  This makes it cost about 1500m/s more to get into the plane of the moons most times than if it was all equatorial.  It also hoses up the ability of SCANsat to map planets, but there's a work-around for that.  There's also Sigman-Binary that makes Plock and its main moon orbit a common barycenter like Pluto and Charon.

 

13 hours ago, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

Power would obviously need to be addressed but, as for communication, I would mostly just ignore it. Definitely not goin' all that way to send probes. Everything will be manned. If I need to make an orbital scan for ore, I'll make use (finally) of the Mk1-2's remote pilot feature.

I don't recommend this.  First off, crewed ships only count as such if the crew is awake.  If you use life support, that's just not really feasible with the travel times involved---you'll have to freeze the crew unless you've got some hypothetical engines.  Second, the probe control thing only works for 1 hop and you need at least 2 if the probe is on the other side of the moon from the crewed pod.  And that's going to happen frequently if your mapping probe is in polar orbit and your crewed pod is in an equatorial orbit.

 

13 hours ago, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

And one last thing, did some research on GPP last night (and it really does sound awesome), but I didn't get to New Horizons. That sounds intriguing as well, so I'd like to learn more. Anyway, thanks for the input.

I did a game in NH but it got cut short by real life so I didn't see nearly as much of it as I wanted to.  It's got a number of the stock moons and planets but many custom ones as well, some of which are in really interesting orbits.  Very high production values.  It's an awesome system, and you'll never get tired of the view of Sonnah and its rings, which you get to see all the time because Kerbin's one of its moons.  Sonnah is about as far from the sun as Dres is in stock, but the sun is brighter so solar panels work on Kerbin as they do in stock.  This distance from the sun as several effects that impact gameplay:

• The planets close to the sun are rather hotter than Moho
• Transfer windows from Sonnah to planets further out are few and far between, as discussed above with Jool in OPM
• Transfers to planets closer to the sun can be like transfers from Kerbin to Moho in stock.  You are often better off doing bi-elliptic transfers to prevent having ungodly huge capture burns upon arrival.

Having Kerbin be a gas giant moon has its own pros and cons.  Pros:  You have more places you can get to with small, simple rockets, so you can get more science faster than you can in the stock system, and thus do more interesting interplanetary missions when you've seen all the other local moons.  Also, as mentioned, the view is always spectacular.  The main disadvantage is that interplanetary transfers cost rather more dV for the same change in solar orbital altitude because you have to escape 2 SOIs before you can even begin to change your interplanetary trajectory.  But if you're used to leaving from Laythe, you've already got a handle on all this.

There's another system where Kerbin is a gas giant moon:  Alternis Kerbol.  I'm playing this right now but am only getting good started as yet.  In this system, you have the same number of bodies as in stock, and they all have the same names, so Kerbin orbits Jool.  HOWEVER, everything has had a total makeover.  Their terrains are completely new, often radically different, and also appear to be randomized procedurally in each separate save file.  Also, most of their sizes, shapes, and colors are very different.  For instance, Tylo is a "super Kerbin", 4x bigger, while Minmus is basically a big asteroid with an SOI only 11km radius.  Also, Gilly and Ike are long-period comets.  But the most intriguing thing is that there is actually, unarguably, complex life elsewhere than Kerbin.  Laythe is a jungle world covered with moss and trees.  I hear there are also trees on Eve but I haven't been there yet.  So there are all sorts of interesting story elements you can get into that way if you're so inclined.

[Spraki]

On 28.11.2017 at 10:39 PM, Geschosskopf said:

Yup, Eeloo becomes the 3rd moon of Sarnus and is the only really viable source of fuel in that system, so is roughly twice as far from the sun as it is in stock.  It's also rather bigger, with higher gravity.

 

What you save in dV requirements by starting from Jool you lose in time.  @OhioBob mentioned the long times between transfer windows, but it's actually worse than that.  A minimum dV Hohmann transfer from Jool to Sarnus would take about as long as from Kerbin because such a trip would cover about 1/2 Jool's orbit.  Jool's orbital period (from the wiki) is a bit over 10 years, so this trip would take about 6 years.  You can get there from Kerbin in about 8, and do so every year.

And the difference gets worse from there on out, because really and truly, Jool isn't all that much closer to the OPM planets than Kerbin (measured radially).  Sarnus is twice as far from the sun as Jool, Urlum is about 4x, and it gets Keplerianly worse from there on out.  It's really a shock the 1st time you open the game with OPM and have to zoom out so far in the tracking station to see Plock that Jool looks like Moho.

 

The main problem with using Jool, however, is that the infrastructure there will have to be maintained for decades.  Supply runs, crew rotations, resource production, etc., all of which will take your active involvement in real time.  And while you're in real time, your stuff going to the outer planets makes no measurable progress.  When you have OPM, Jool is an "inner planet".  You simply can't take the time to manage any bases from there inwards if you ever want to see the stuff beyond.

There are a few add-on mods for OPM.   @Sigma88 made OPM-Tilt that stands the whole Urlum system on edge like the real Uranus.  This makes it cost about 1500m/s more to get into the plane of the moons most times than if it was all equatorial.  It also hoses up the ability of SCANsat to map planets, but there's a work-around for that.  There's also Sigman-Binary that makes Plock and its main moon orbit a common barycenter like Pluto and Charon.

 

I don't recommend this.  First off, crewed ships only count as such if the crew is awake.  If you use life support, that's just not really feasible with the travel times involved---you'll have to freeze the crew unless you've got some hypothetical engines.  Second, the probe control thing only works for 1 hop and you need at least 2 if the probe is on the other side of the moon from the crewed pod.  And that's going to happen frequently if your mapping probe is in polar orbit and your crewed pod is in an equatorial orbit.

 

I did a game in NH but it got cut short by real life so I didn't see nearly as much of it as I wanted to.  It's got a number of the stock moons and planets but many custom ones as well, some of which are in really interesting orbits.  Very high production values.  It's an awesome system, and you'll never get tired of the view of Sonnah and its rings, which you get to see all the time because Kerbin's one of its moons.  Sonnah is about as far from the sun as Dres is in stock, but the sun is brighter so solar panels work on Kerbin as they do in stock.  This distance from the sun as several effects that impact gameplay:

• The planets close to the sun are rather hotter than Moho
• Transfer windows from Sonnah to planets further out are few and far between, as discussed above with Jool in OPM
• Transfers to planets closer to the sun can be like transfers from Kerbin to Moho in stock.  You are often better off doing bi-elliptic transfers to prevent having ungodly huge capture burns upon arrival.

Having Kerbin be a gas giant moon has its own pros and cons.  Pros:  You have more places you can get to with small, simple rockets, so you can get more science faster than you can in the stock system, and thus do more interesting interplanetary missions when you've seen all the other local moons.  Also, as mentioned, the view is always spectacular.  The main disadvantage is that interplanetary transfers cost rather more dV for the same change in solar orbital altitude because you have to escape 2 SOIs before you can even begin to change your interplanetary trajectory.  But if you're used to leaving from Laythe, you've already got a handle on all this.

There's another system where Kerbin is a gas giant moon:  Alternis Kerbol.  I'm playing this right now but am only getting good started as yet.  In this system, you have the same number of bodies as in stock, and they all have the same names, so Kerbin orbits Jool.  HOWEVER, everything has had a total makeover.  Their terrains are completely new, often radically different, and also appear to be randomized procedurally in each separate save file.  Also, most of their sizes, shapes, and colors are very different.  For instance, Tylo is a "super Kerbin", 4x bigger, while Minmus is basically a big asteroid with an SOI only 11km radius.  Also, Gilly and Ike are long-period comets.  But the most intriguing thing is that there is actually, unarguably, complex life elsewhere than Kerbin.  Laythe is a jungle world covered with moss and trees.  I hear there are also trees on Eve but I haven't been there yet.  So there are all sorts of interesting story elements you can get into that way if you're so inclined.

I think I will be trying the alternis mod again. Would like to have more moons to visit though. Are there other moon mods that might be viable for alternis (or GPP)?

[Geschosskopf]

20 minutes ago, Spraki said:

I think I will be trying the alternis mod again. Would like to have more moons to visit though. Are there other moon mods that might be viable for alternis (or GPP)?

It depends on how faithful you want to be to things like Kepler's Laws for planet spacing.  Unless you're running Principia, planets have no gravitational effect on each other, so there's nothing stopping you from filling your system with however many planets at whatever spacing you want, other than you own sense of decorum.  Just be warned that you'll probably have SCADS of asteroids that make no sense unless you edit them out of the cfg files  

That said, just eyeballing things, I'm pretty sure OPM would fit on the outside of Alternis Kerbol with no conflict.  Apparently AK is designed to run with Principia and is a rather compact system.

[Spraki]

13 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

It depends on how faithful you want to be to things like Kepler's Laws for planet spacing.  Unless you're running Principia, planets have no gravitational effect on each other, so there's nothing stopping you from filling your system with however many planets at whatever spacing you want, other than you own sense of decorum.  Just be warned that you'll probably have SCADS of asteroids that make no sense unless you edit them out of the cfg files  

That said, just eyeballing things, I'm pretty sure OPM would fit on the outside of Alternis Kerbol with no conflict.  Apparently AK is designed to run with Principia and is a rather compact system.

True true. I didn't think about the asteroids. Probably better to curb the enthusiasm. Just feels good to have a well populated sky.

Ah no, I have to pass on Principia. My potato laptop is from 2011 without a gtx. But she at least tries to work for me <3.

Nonetheless, maybe I will stick with gpp for now.

[Geschosskopf]

On 12/1/2017 at 11:35 AM, Spraki said:

True true. I didn't think about the asteroids. Probably better to curb the enthusiasm. Just feels good to have a well populated sky.

Always remember, there are 3 sources of asteroids these days: stock, Kopernicus, and Custom Asteroids. I'm not sure if having Kopernicus or Custom Asteroids installed automatically disables the stock asteroids (it didn't originally), but it is clear that when Kerbin is a gas giant moon, the stock asteroids don't exist, disabled somehow in the mod system's own files.  Many planet packs have Kopernicus-based asteroids and, for the more popular ones like OPM, there are usually a variety of Custom Asteroids files available as well.  However, the validity of any Kopernicus and/or Custom Asteroids depend on the underlying assumptions of the system, such as this system being all there is, or added to the stock system.  If you have some other configuration of planets than the assumptions of the asteroids, you'll have to do a bit of relatively simple cfg editing.  Kopernicus and Custom Asteroids don't use the exact same syntax but neither is very hard to comprehend.

[WuphonsReach]

On 11/28/2017 at 12:39 AM, Geschosskopf said:

That sheer distance means that travel times are measured in decades, at least with conventional (LFO and nuke) engines.   You can get there faster with mid-term future-style engines, but it's still quite a few years 1-way.  This means that if you want to do anything meaningful at any of the OPM planets before the next update breaks your save, you have to warp through years-to-decades of time at one go.  Which means you pretty much must completely ignore everything from Jool inwards, except for the bare minimums to establish relays, and (if doing this in career) some simple probes to get the science necessary to go to the outer planets.

I like to solve that issue with KCT turned up to eleven, which really cuts down on the number of launches that you can do per year.  Which in turn, means I spend a lot of time jumping forward 30-90 days at a time, which helps eat up the decades.  My first crew launch is in year 6-8, first station around year 12, and then another few years before I'm starting to consider a Mun station, and probably year 20-30 before I'm considering a permanent habitat on the Mun.