A week in... 10% still playing

[TomKerbal]

But they already solved some of the big problems in KSP2 in KSP1, so I am quite astonished. There is a general mayor rule for software development : "Don't change the core code if it's running successfully !"  If there are nevertheless  reasons to do so, you have to be extremly carefull and only the absolute top experts are allowed to do this !  Often these are not present any more, so see quotation above.

Edited April 15, 2023 by TomKerbal

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

52 minutes ago, Razor235 said:

don't go radio silence on the issue until after your second patch when it's existed at launch

They're not radio silent - they are pushing Challenges and showcasing wacky builds!

...and the band played on

[RocketRockington]

3 hours ago, Alexoff said:

Here are some more interesting statistics. The number of reviews on steam for KSP2 from April 1 - 170 positive and 110 negative, and for KSP1 - 238 positive and 10 negative. From this we can assume that now KSP2 brings about the same profit as KSP1.

There's a big price differential.  Likely somewhat more people per sale review KSP2 vs KSP1, but not enough to make up for how big the difference in price is. 

On the other hand, 10x more money has been spent on KSP2, given both the # of people working on both and the relative salaries involved.  And KSP1 has certainly made a lot more.money than KSP2 as well.

[Alexoff]

I just want to remind you of a frame from the gameplay trailer

You must have thought it was a joke?

5 minutes ago, RocketRockington said:

On the other hand, 10x more money has been spent on KSP2, given both the # of people working on both and the relative salaries involved.

KSP1 was developed in Mexico, I remember stories from 2016 about developer salaries. These were outrageous money something like couple of hundred bucks. KSP2 was developed on the west coast of the USA, I suspect salaries are 20-30 times higher there.

[Kerbart]

3 hours ago, TomKerbal said:

There is a general mayor rule for software development : "Don't change the core code if it's running successfully !"

I wouldn't exactly say that KSP2 is running successfully.

[TomKerbal]

1 hour ago, Kerbart said:

I wouldn't exactly say that KSP2 is running successfully.

me neither

[K33N]

The playerbase is anywhere from 250 - 550 at any given time.

I hope they were telling the truth about having the funding secured otherwise this game is toast.

[cocoscacao]

20 minutes ago, K33N said:

The playerbase is anywhere from 250 - 550 at any given time

I guess too much bugs are present for anything more complex. It's kinda expected. More patches, more possibilities. Flying around KSC cannot provide fun forever.

[Alexoff]

18 minutes ago, K33N said:

I hope they were telling the truth about having the funding secured otherwise this game is toast.

The development was financed for 6 years, the result is obvious. It must be understood that the roadmap can also be completed in this manner: somehow made science, boring empty planets with textures of different colors, small colonies of a couple of dozen parts, multiplayer in the form of a table of results. T2 is unlikely to leave the game at the early access stage, as this is a serious stain on the reputation and possible lawsuits with game buyers. 1.0 can be assigned formally by going through the roadmap with minimal work. Well, by this time, most will forget about the game. This is not the first and probably not the last franchise where publishers have decided to make money from gullible fans, spending a minimum amount of money and effort.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

28 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

possible lawsuits with game buyers

Please share one that had any success. 

 

Must be purchasers, not investors 

[Alexoff]

1 hour ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Please share one that had any success.

I can't find any other example of a major game maker releasing early access for almost the full price of the game. And then just abandoned the project.  Maybe T2 don't want to be first. Of course, large companies have a large staff of lawyers (I remember that in the credits of cyberpunk 2077 there were no less lawyers than programmers), but these lawyers have to be paid. Shareholders, in turn, do not like bad news, as it reduces the share price. And the news that the players filed a class action lawsuit, since T2 released early access to KSP2, promising to finish the game later, and then brazenly closed the project - this is outrageous news, minus 5% of the share price, terrible! Perhaps KSP2 was given a year or two to complete 1.0, reducing the team and depriving the remaining bonuses, considering that it would be cheaper.

[RocketRockington]

So each patch seems to have bumped numbers for a week before returning to pre-patch player counts and then continuing to decline.

One hilarious thing - though the thread title is now very wrong, there is a funny 10% value we're about to hit.  If the whole Intercept team is logged into the game through steam, we're about to get to the point where they make up 10% of the peak user base.

 

[Alexoff]

It is possible that KSP2 was still running on these computers, and this adds online

Edited April 18, 2023 by Alexoff

[Strawberry]

53 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

Perhaps KSP2 was given a year or two to complete 1.0, reducing the team and depriving the remaining bonuses, considering that it would be cheaper.

Nearly all of the KSP2 team has a linkedin account, and since release the only person who has been let go was the technical director (according to him, due to his high pay and the lack of a need of a technical director at this stage of the game). The reducing the team aspect at the least is very much not happening so far.

[Alexoff]

25 minutes ago, Strawberry said:

Nearly all of the KSP2 team has a linkedin account, and since release the only person who has been let go was the technical director (according to him, due to his high pay and the lack of a need of a technical director at this stage of the game). The reducing the team aspect at the least is very much not happening so far.

Perhaps T2 believes that at this stage it is necessary that the main bugs be fixed, and with the start of the release of the roadmap, not all developers will be needed. Perhaps decisions will be made based on the results of the quarterly report. In any case, I strongly doubt that T2 management is happy with KSP2. And in general, Private Division has little to boast of over the past few years. A miracle must happen to turn the tide.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

I'd like to point out the fear of T2 shelving the project is a 'Them' problem.  They bought the IP, paid for the development, and then for the earnings call or whatever other reason pushed KSP2 out in the horrid state we got it. 

Yeah, Intercept should not have promised way, way more than they delivered - but T2 stands to benefit or lose from decisions they made and will continue to make over this development period. 

My personal belief is that they've harmed their IP in ways that it may never recover from.  That's on them. 

I tried to make myself play this last patch - but just cannot muster the interest in bug hunting right now.  Literally the very first thing I tried to do was bugged (VAB persistent procedural icons) and that, on top of everything else, broke any interest I have in KSP2 for the near future.  The 'game' just is not fun. 

[Scarecrow71]

5 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

I tried to make myself play this last patch - but just cannot muster the interest in bug hunting right now.  Literally the very first thing I tried to do was bugged (VAB persistent procedural icons) and that, on top of everything else, broke any interest I have in KSP2 for the near future.  The 'game' just is not fun.

I am reaching this point as we speak.  Yeah, I can build a craft and get it to Duna and back.  But the number of bugs I have to deal with to do so is just insane.  And that doesn't take into account the stupidly small number of parts we are stuck with, with no idea when we or if we are getting more.

The ugly bug I ran into today involved my craft spinning unctorollably on the launchpad until it burst apart at the seams simply because I didn't have struts connecting two trusses together at multiple - yes, MULTIPLE - points.  Explain to me how exactly a ship just blows up because, although the parts are connected and centered. There are no struts.  Ridiculous.  ,(For the record. I'm trying to build a craft to get into orbit using only separatrons.  Which I can do in KSP1.)

[Heretic391]

10 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

I am reaching this point as we speak.  Yeah, I can build a craft and get it to Duna and back.  But the number of bugs I have to deal with to do so is just insane.  And that doesn't take into account the stupidly small number of parts we are stuck with, with no idea when we or if we are getting more.

The ugly bug I ran into today involved my craft spinning unctorollably on the launchpad until it burst apart at the seams simply because I didn't have struts connecting two trusses together at multiple - yes, MULTIPLE - points.  Explain to me how exactly a ship just blows up because, although the parts are connected and centered. There are no struts.  Ridiculous.  ,(For the record. I'm trying to build a craft to get into orbit using only separatrons.  Which I can do in KSP1.)

Had similar experiences. Tried to use unbreakable joints cheat but that doesn't seem to work either. 

[Superfluous J]

Interest in KSP2 player numbers has dropped precipitously this week. We've not had a single post about the actual numbers since April 12th.

At this rate, we'll have less than one post a month about those numbers by mid summer, and the thread will be dead before the year's out.

[AtomicTech]

1 hour ago, Superfluous J said:

Interest in KSP2 player numbers has dropped precipitously this week. We've not had a single post about the actual numbers since April 12th.

At this rate, we'll have less than one post a month about those numbers by mid summer, and the thread will be dead before the year's out.

Well I'll just add that even though I touched KSP 2 this past weekend, I don't really have a want to do so in the near future :\

[Pthigrivi]

I hope folks hang in there. This game has so much potential. Yeah, honestly, the bean-counters should have thought long-term profits and given it till June to launch for a better reception. But performance really has been better for me in the last couple patches. Still frustrating, but better. Im pretty patient and I know how great this game can be. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Pthigrivi

[RocketRockington]

2 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

Interest in KSP2 player numbers has dropped precipitously this week. We've not had a single post about the actual numbers since April 12th.

At this rate, we'll have less than one post a month about those numbers by mid summer, and the thread will be dead before the year's out.

You're joking I know, but when people stop caring enough to come and even complain about KSP2 - and it's not because the game is now perfect and wonderful - that's also not a great sign.  KSP1 went out with a bang, a genuine finish to years of updates, updates that finally brought the needed tools to the game, and fireworks. 

KSP2 seems more likely to go out with a whimper, at this point.

[Meecrob]

On 4/18/2023 at 7:32 PM, Strawberry said:

Nearly all of the KSP2 team has a linkedin account, and since release the only person who has been let go was the technical director (according to him, due to his high pay and the lack of a need of a technical director at this stage of the game). The reducing the team aspect at the least is very much not happening so far.

I'm not extremely knowledgeable of what a technical director does, but wiki says:

"In software development, a technical director is typically responsible for the successful creation and delivery of the company's product to the marketplace by managing technical risks and opportunities; making key software design and implementation decisions with the development teams, scheduling of tasks including tracking dependencies, managing change requests, and guaranteeing quality of deliveries and educating the team on technical best practices.

Typical responsibilities:

• Defines the technological strategy in conjunction with the development team of each project: pipeline, tools, and key development procedures
• Assesses technical risk and mitigation plan
• Establishes standards and procedures to track and measure project's progression
• Evaluates development teams, identifying strengths, problem areas, and developing plans for improving performance
• Evaluates interview candidates for technical positions
• Scouts for and evaluates new technology and tools as opportunities for innovation and development excellence
• Oversees technical design documentation process for correctness and timeliness
• Provides input to the other disciplines on the practicality of initial design goals and impact to the overall project timeline
• Evaluates software implementation on design and task thoroughness
• Helps to identify high risk areas for the project director
• Identifies weak software systems that need code improvement and schedules corrective action, when possible
• Creates automated test process for system features, where possible, and contributes to the build system
• Aids in all stages of post-production including during finalizing"

If that is accurate, it sounds like the technical director was fired for not delivering (however it is puzzling he was not replaced), or jumped ship (perhaps due to conflicts with the publisher, or some other reason they were prevented from doing their job), and was just being professionally courteous with their public statements.

You don't get interviews in the future by telling the press negative things about your employers from the past.

Either way, it sounds to me like a game in the state of KSP2 desperately needs a competent technical director.

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Meecrob

[Ferio]

KSP2 needs big content updates and fast. 

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

2 hours ago, Meecrob said:

Either way, it sounds to me like a game in the state of KSP2 desperately needs a competent technical director

Yeah. 

Another piece of the puzzle... 

I'm wondering if he wasn't the chef hired to make soup, then given 5 tomatoes, 3 potatoes, a rock, 6 leeks, an old leather shoe and a rusty electric kettle.  Everything needs to be in the soup. 

Or else he was the guy hired to make soup, given proper ingredients and then wore the pot as a hat and made 'soup' in the shoe. 

Who knows.