What happened to increased communication?

[kdaviper]

41 minutes ago, calabus2 said:

Why aren't those deadlines and goals visible to everyone that purchased the game? There is little to no transparency when it come to the dev cycle. 

Totally forgot that anybody who purchases an early access title is entitled to inside information. My bad.

[Superfluous J]

49 minutes ago, calabus2 said:

Why aren't those deadlines and goals visible to everyone that purchased the game?

Because if they're not met everybody will cry that they were lied to. We've seen that more than once and I for one welcome never seeing it again.

[Meecrob]

On 4/4/2024 at 3:13 PM, Scarecrow71 said:

Explain how it's getting something for free.  What exactly am I going to get that I haven't already paid for and been promised as a part of EA?  What updates do you know about that are coming up to and including 1.0 that aren't included in the purchase price of EA am I going to get for free?

Lol, no I am agreeing with you

 

On 4/4/2024 at 6:32 PM, Dakota said:

She did not.

You are the one who said it.

 

On 3/18/2024 at 12:05 PM, Dakota said:

This is correct. Shana's mention of GaaS is more about the game design elements that play into constraints and building player power.

Stop gaslighting me. I know it is unintentional, but still man, gimme  break. I asked you to deal with me square and you won't even reply to my message to you where I said I would volunteer my time and work with the team if you just forward my request to someone who could make a decision. I know full well they do not want my ideas, I am an amateur and they are paid professionals. I was hoping that since in my message to you I explained I am totally sympathetic to the fact that you were the only community manager for five months was it? I was hoping you would humour me and say "Thanks, the team appreciates your concern and  love your enthusiasm for wanting the best KSP2 possible, but the dev team has this one. Thanks for trying to be an active member of the community."

Look, I can either be the biggest thorn in your side, or I can be a model community member. Its your choice how you want to deal with me. Are you going to treat me like a child or an adult?

 

On 4/4/2024 at 6:42 PM, calabus2 said:

Why aren't those deadlines and goals visible to everyone that purchased the game? There is little to no transparency when it come to the dev cycle.

A million times this! We were told we were getting a sequel to KSP. It was implied that we were getting KSP1 plus all the stuff on the roadmap. Now we are being given some cheap knockoff it seems. There is a reason Scott Manley stopped using KSP2 in his videos. Anybody think he actually likes the default craft name is the "Fly Safe"?
YES we get it, devs. I know you are trying to attract a younger audience, but don't make the game insulting to the intellect for people past puberty.
 

 

On 4/4/2024 at 7:27 PM, kdaviper said:

Totally forgot that anybody who purchases an early access title is entitled to inside information. My bad.

This isn't "inside information" this is basic roadmap information. The problem is Take Two shareholders don't want to hear that the fanbase for KSP2 is all new players, since 90+% of KSP1 veterans  see this game for what it is: pandering to what the powers that be think is a bigger market thatn hardcore simmers. They are removing all complexity and turning the game into a sort of  curated amusement park ride, rarther than the sandbox that made KSP1 so legendary.

 

On 4/4/2024 at 7:34 PM, Superfluous J said:

Because if they're not met everybody will cry that they were lied to. We've seen that more than once and I for one welcome never seeing it again.

To be fair, the team doesn't seem to be able to handle upsetting anyone, even though the nature of EA is, as much as you try to not break saves, you might have to. These peolpe seem to be afraid of us like we are a hornets nest or something.

Having said that, the whine-fest is unbearable. Its a game, its going to break sometimes, get over it, lol.

Edit: Looks like I need to take my own advice and get over it.

Edited April 6 by Meecrob

[PDCWolf]

4 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

Because if they're not met everybody will cry that they were lied to.

And that's bad? Not giving dates or making any promise on the future of the game has clearly done so much good for this forum, general faith in the project, and prospective sales... Right up there in the selling strats alongside not responding to feedback, or ignoring basic accessibility issues because replacing a font is too hard.

But hey, anyone who disagrees can just be put on the ignore list.

[Superfluous J]

14 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

And that's bad?

It's annoying for sure. If it was me and all my communication was met with vitriol I'd stop communicating, but then I'm not running the PR arm of subdivision of a subdivision of a gaming publisher so maybe things would be different.

[Meecrob]

1 hour ago, Superfluous J said:

It's annoying for sure. If it was me and all my communication was met with vitriol I'd stop communicating, but then I'm not running the PR arm of subdivision of a subdivision of a gaming publisher so maybe things would be different.

I think that your view is totally fair, however, as you say, you don't run the PR dept. You'd figure the people who went to school to become PR professionals would have thicker skin, though. It seems to me that the people employed are not used to a fast-paced work environment.

[Icegrx]

On 4/3/2024 at 1:56 PM, Dakota said:

Just giving you all a heads-up that there is a Dev Blog planned to go out on Friday!

Am going to set the expectation that it's not about colonies, but we should have news to share about colonies soon.

I am excited for today’s blog. 

[AtomicTech]

18 hours ago, Flush Foot said:

Uhh... This isn't Twitter X, last time I checked.
(Though it has started to feel more like that lately )

It's been this way since the day KSP 2's preview from all of the KSP YT'ers came out.

It died down as people lost hope and faith and significantly more after For Science!

Now I suspect it's rising again as people are finding again that KSP w/ mods (and as buggy as it is) is more enjoyable/fun than KSP 2 and are getting impatient that KSP 2 isn't pushing out enough new content and is still lacking a few vital features that KSP has.

[AtomicTech]

You can almost completely recreate the promised KSP experience with mods like Restock, Restock Plus, all of Nertea's and Benjee's Mods, Restock Waterfall Expansion, SimpleConstruction or Extraplanetary Launchpads, MechJeb, Trajectories, and a few other mods. With that, you'll go from Kerbals on mini SRBs to Kerbals in cryogenic storage (travelling decades) to colonize a distant star.

I know, I know, EA blah blah blah early access blah blah blah you bought it early what were you expecting blah blah blah just get mods for it (No.) blah blah blah. 

I still feel a little cheated about KSP 2. I really hated that they gave us morsels for years before and weren't honest with the state of the game. I hated that I've never bounced as hard off of a game as I have KSP 2, which I had been eagerly awaiting ever since I saw the trailer pop-up in my YT feed while I was on vacation to Hawaii back in 2019. I'm still disappointed but what can I really do?  I don't have the time to play the game enough to find bugs to help development. I especially don't have the time and experience to try and apply to join the developers to help them out. I also have precious little time to dedicate to gaming and I don't want to waste it on a game that feels unfinished. All I seem to ever do is hop on KSP2, fly one of the stock planes for a few minutes, and exit to go play something else. Granted, I did do some of the science stuff but I didn't feel like I had to or really wanted to continue doing the missions after the munar arch. It vaguely reminds me of Fallout 76 in its early days where there was supposed to be people around but it was nothing more than an empty void where life should've been. KSP2 feels the same. Fingers crossed that KSP2 follows the route of 76 and that one day it's chock full of good content, is great for new players and old players alike, and you can go dog fight in the skies of Laythe or drag race on the surface of Gurdamma. Until then though, I'll be putting KSP2 back on the shelf and spending my time in something that is that cohesive experience like DRG or Fallout 4. I'll take it off the shelf whenever a new update comes out and, fingers crossed, it'll be the one that finally has that experience that we're all looking for.

I'd like nothing more than to be able to enjoy KSP 2 more than KSP; until then, I'm staying out of the whole argumentative fray.

Edited April 5 by AtomicTech

[Icegrx]

6 hours ago, Icegrx said:

I am excited for today’s blog. 

The excitement was for nothing…

[Vanamonde]

Please avoid making things personal.

[Scarecrow71]

Can we please get back on track with this thread?  This is supposed to be about the perceived lack of communication from IG/PD/TT to the forums, not about whether or not Elon Musk has an anonymous account here that he uses to recruit math bois.

[Presto200]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I made this post in the hype thread, I made it originally talking about timing because of the previous conversation in the thread but I ended up talking a little about stuff that relates to this thread so I thought I might as well link it here. Happy Sunday!

[Presto200]

I'd also ask if you are going to respond about anything I said in that post in terms of the development/commuication please do it in this thread so that the Hype thread can stay mostly just hype/speculation  

[The Aziz]

4 hours ago, Meecrob said:

I have yet to receive a reply from the community managers for any of my requests.

You're really expecting a personal response to each of your very biased questions. If I were them, I wouldn't bother [snip]

Edited April 7 by Vanamonde

[Vanamonde]

Some comments removed. Keep it civil, please. 

[ChrisShourai]

On 4/3/2024 at 11:56 AM, Dakota said:

Just giving you all a heads-up that there is a Dev Blog planned to go out on Friday!

Am going to set the expectation that it's not about colonies, but we should have news to share about colonies soon.

After reading the comments in the dev blog, coming back to this specific thread topic, and re-reading this from @Dakota, I just had to laugh out loud with pure incredulity. This comment was more tone-deaf than the dev blog, knowing we were asking for increased development communication and we get a dev blog about an eclipse. Just BLOWS my mind.

[Scarecrow71]

9 minutes ago, ChrisShourai said:

After reading the comments in the dev blog, coming back to this specific thread topic, and re-reading this from @Dakota, I just had to laugh out loud with pure incredulity. This comment was more tone-deaf than the dev blog, knowing we were asking for increased development communication and we get a dev blog about an eclipse. Just BLOWS my mind.

Yeah, when I originally read that, I immediately asked myself "In all seriousness...wt actual f".  I think the only thing he's said since then that elicited an even more flabbergasted response from myself was:  

On 4/5/2024 at 7:53 PM, Dakota said:

But keep telling us what you want - what you want to know about, who from, in what form, etc. It really helps

And as I pointed out in my response to this specifically, we've been telling them for more than a year now.  If the lack of response to us telling the company what we are feeling and seeing isn't being tone-deaf, then that term needs a new definition.

[Meecrob]

2 hours ago, ChrisShourai said:

Just BLOWS my mind

Seriously! And its even worse that NASA basically gave it to them as well!

[Fizzlebop Smith]

1 hour ago, ChrisShourai said:

After reading the comments in the dev blog, coming back to this specific thread topic, and re-reading this from @Dakota, I just had to laugh out loud with pure incredulity. This comment was more tone-deaf than the dev blog, knowing we were asking for increased development communication and we get a dev blog about an eclipse. Just BLOWS my mind.

This is how I felt regarding the triplicate of videos shared to commemorate 1 year in EA.

Combined with a couple comments in particular from the AMA... and now this.

Why can we not get relevant talking points? 

Questions Like 

What is the greatest challenge regarding the wheel physics? What possible solutions have you tossed around? 

Or even something like..

Does anyone on the team *play* the  game.

What are the most frustrating aspect of gameplay limitation that you encountered while playing?

It doesn't ever feel like the conversation is about the development of the game.. or only very loosely so.

I really don't care that the game is in such a state. It is now in a phase of development acceptable (IMO) for EA. I could totally ride out the next decade playing an EA title...

If there was some evidence that our input mattered more.

[whatsEJstandfor]

Posting this here since this thread is more relevant, but in response to @MARL_Mk1's post: https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/224277-developer-insights-23-black-hole-sun/page/3/#comment-4378423

About the suggestion of having the department heads give little progress updates each month, I love this idea but my fear, given how communication has been the last few years, is it'd just be several people saying "we're working on cool stuff but can't go into any details yet" each time. And, to ask a question in response to the hypothetical quote I just made up, why specifically CAN'T you go into any details yet? Is it because marketing thinks revealing too many details will make people less interested? Or is it because those details haven't been finalized? If they haven't been, why not give the details along with the caveat that they can still change (which should be implied regardless since this is early access)? Or is it because you're not confident about the state of development, and think that giving details would make us lose confidence, too? What do you believe is the benefit of continuing to be vague and coy? Whatever the answer, I'd like to suggest that the good will lost from keeping the community out of the loop outweighs it.

EDIT: To clarify, these questions aren't aimed at @Dakota; they're aimed at whoever the people are who make decisions on how much info to release and when. Whether that be a higher-up at IG, or PD, or T2.

Edited April 8 by whatsEJstandfor

[MechBFP]

18 minutes ago, whatsEJstandfor said:

What do you believe is the benefit of continuing to be vague and coy?

The million dollar question right there. 

[calabus2]

21 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

The million dollar question right there. 

As said earlier in this thread....they do not care. They have their internal roadmap and bug reports that nobody but them can see. They have thier vision of what the game will be and your ideas and opinions mean very little. The CMs are vague about content and fixes because the devs are throwing $hit at a wall and seeing what sticks when it comes to features and fixes. The studio just trots about the CMs to make some excuses qualing community concerns to shut you up for a week or two,,,,rinse and repeat. 

[MARL_Mk1]

1 hour ago, whatsEJstandfor said:

Posting this here since this thread is more relevant, but in response to @MARL_Mk1's post: https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/224277-developer-insights-23-black-hole-sun/page/3/#comment-4378423

About the suggestion of having the department heads give little progress updates each month, I love this idea but my fear, given how communication has been the last few years, is it'd just be several people saying "we're working on cool stuff but can't go into any details yet" each time. And, to ask a question in response to the hypothetical quote I just made up, why specifically CAN'T you go into any details yet? Is it because marketing thinks revealing too many details will make people less interested? Or is it because those details haven't been finalized? If they haven't been, why not give the details along with the caveat that they can still change (which should be implied regardless since this is early access)? Or is it because you're not confident about the state of development, and think that giving details would make us lose confidence, too? What do you believe is the benefit of continuing to be vague and coy? Whatever the answer, I'd like to suggest that the good will lost from keeping the community out of the loop outweighs it.

EDIT: To clarify, these questions aren't aimed at @Dakota; they're aimed at whoever the people are who make decisions on how much info to release and when. Whether that be a higher-up at IG, or PD, or T2.

I honestly believe the communication issues (no pun intended to the current lack of CommsNet ) arise from the way they are trying to manage them.

Last 3-4 months in terms of Dev Team > Early Adopter communications feel like the ones you'd expect from a game that has already gone Gold and has already had its v1.0 release.

KSP2 is a 1 year old Early Access project, and the last 3-4 months have felt the same way as last 3-4 months on the same game I mentioned on the post you linked. But said game is already 5+ years past their 1.0 relelease, so we already expect them to release the scheduled updates, drop some info and 'dissapear' until next version hits experimental branch.

However, this does not work with KSP2. A project for which Early Adopters paid not $15, $20 or $30, but $50. That's a full release price for many games. I truly believe KSP2 will be worth that money by the day it is feature complete, functional and performant. But the people that paid that eyes closed did so because they love this game, want to see it be completed and devoted their hopes to what I believe is a pretty capable and passionate team of developers. But the game is nowhere near to be completed.

They need to work on how to manage communications on a different way. An Early Access game cannot afford to say:

"Hey guys! Thanks for purchasing our Early Access! Here is a vague roadmap for the next +2-3 years. We don't know when those will come out, and we can't give you ANY details because we don't want to spoil you! But we'll release a 1 picture leek on Discord 1 month before we make the announcement! Have fun!"

Do that once KSP2 has released and post-release content starts rolling and being produced, but Early Access players opt-in on your project's programme to get periodical insights on how the game is being developed and produced. Ommiting this just places us at the end of the pipeline, where we get a build that probably works once QA is done with it, with a pretty video and a "That's all folks! Come by again in 5 months for the next one"

I want to know what has been cooking up for the last 30 days. I don't care about being spoiled. I already know Colonies are coming out because the Early Access Roadmap showed this to me. All we need is insight.

Edited April 8 by MARL_Mk1

[Fizzlebop Smith]

@calabus2

Although I may agree with your position, I don't agree with your stance. 

That kind of oozing negativety & biased commentary has a tendency to have the opposite effect.

People will often bristle, become defensive and can become unable / unwilling to see inherent value in the argument. 

.. I do get the sense you are not trying to *sway* them to change their ways or anything.  But bc many do fill this way ..I am only saying this to hopefully forestall an echoes chamber of negativety.

not hostile negativety?

Although I may agree with your position, I don't agree with your stance. 

That kind of oozing negativety & biased commentary has a tendency to have the opposite effect.

People will often bristle, become defensive and can become unable / unwilling to see inherent value in the argument. 

.. I do get the sense you are not trying to *sway* them to change their ways or anything.  But bc many do fill this way ..I am only saying this to hopefully forestall an echoes chamber of negativety.

not hostile negativety?

@MARL_Mk1

So very true it's poetic.

Edited April 8 by Fizzlebop Smith