HarvesteR has some news...and some hope

[Scarecrow71]

16 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

You really  think KSP 1's success was just  HarvesteR.

Nobody believes HarvestR did KSP1 on his own.  [snip]

KSP1, even in its very infancy, was no less than 3 people.  He's gone so far as to say as much.  The project was his brainchild, and it was his passion that started it.  But he didn't do it alone.   [snip]

Edited July 7 by Vanamonde

[ColdJ]

Get ready for the side stepping of any rational argument you might make. Let us not be baited into a debate that logic cannot win.

[Vl3d]

14 hours ago, AlphaMensae said:

a whole team of devs who had no clue what KSP was

Strongly disagree. KSP 2 is a much better base to build on.

[PDCWolf]

3 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

Strongly disagree. KSP 2 is a much better base to build on.

Not from any factual standpoint. KSP2 is a worse game in every single technical aspect bar loading times (and those loading times are as it is right now, missing all but one mainline features).

[Tony Tony Chopper]

34 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

Not from any factual standpoint. KSP2 is a worse game in every single technical aspect bar loading times (and those loading times are as it is right now, missing all but one mainline features).

Hack like fixes will never be better than actual fixes, but will always appear to be better for any layman. Alone the fact that KSP2 uses more cores makes it a way better base to build on, yes. Although, potential became useless in the very moment when development dropped. Enough said.

[Fizzlebop Smith]

Mt biggest issues with ksp2 is the manner they decided to handle physics toll.

This is why I think they went with a classic city builder approach to colony (from preview). That is why they proposed resource runs by a metric that ticks up every so often.

KSP1 has some hars limits.. but for whatever reason KSP2 has harder limits. That's with the removal of Kerbnet background requirements.

 

My last Career playthrough on KSP1 had 3 major planetary installations, 6 major orbital installation (KerbWeaver One Shook Itself Apart).. and a fully functional solar relay network.

This was happening in the background while my 500 part craft (x3) sailed around the system at a bearable FPS.

I can get no where near that level of immersion around my space agency with KSP2. It's not a settings bottleneck bc I can turn everything down and still have issues (once my com relays are fully set up) running multiple missions with large craft.

I don't know code.. but it feels unable to handle physics anywhere near the same level.

This does not even touch on the belligerent unwillingness of creative direction to listen to community feedback.

 

No I hope harvester starts with a crash landed colony approach like he talked about. Build up and explore. Make them rabbits so we can shrug off high mortality rates.

It would be amazing if he could getting funding to purchase the IP while keeping full autonomy on the project... that would be too good to be true.

Divest the IP from the publisher and ley HarvestR smear cake in their face.

Edited July 7 by Fizzlebop Smith

[PDCWolf]

2 hours ago, Tony Tony Chopper said:

Hack like fixes will never be better than actual fixes, but will always appear to be better for any layman. Alone the fact that KSP2 uses more cores makes it a way better base to build on, yes. Although, potential became useless in the very moment when development dropped. Enough said.

It's really not. It's a less stable codebase with issues rooted way deeper than KSP1's and left to rot much early in its lifecycle. Sure, it's got axial tilt and on demand asset loading which are nice, but other than that there's nothing salvageable, and there's not even appropriate mod support without hacking your way in through bepinex which is cancer.

It's also very well known that it supports less parts, less total vessels (and less total parts in a save), and it's much easier to just break it.

[Observe]

18 hours ago, MARL_Mk1 said:

Whatever it is, it won't be Kerbal, with Kerbals in it, about Kerbals breaking stuff.  It's Kerbals being such an incredibly amazing character and idea that their existence will forever overshadow any other spaceflight mascot.

I'd be very happy without Kerbals. Never liked them. I play KSP in spite of Kebals. I'm in it for the space simulator.

[Superfluous J]

Just now, Observe said:

I'd be very happy without Kerbals. Never liked them. I play KSP in spite of Kebals. I'm in it for the space simulator.

You should def. try Juno. It's KSP without Kerbals plus procedural parts.

[Observe]

5 minutes ago, Superfluous J said:

You should def. try Juno. It's KSP without Kerbals plus procedural parts.

Why? I prefer KSP1 over Juno as it currently stands. Just because I don't like the stupid cartoony Kerbals, doesn't mean I don't love the rest of the game.

[GGG-GoodGuyGreg]

3 hours ago, Vl3d said:

Strongly disagree. KSP 2 is a much better base to build on.

Maybe from a graphics point of view.

Everything else is a mess. 
Unless you think a base where orbital mechanics have proven to be an afterthought that can’t be fixed, is a good base for a KSP game. 

[Space_Coyote]

I'm going to put my two bits in on this one courtesy of a 1970's TV Show intro...

 

" Colonel Jebidiah Kerman, Kerbalnaut, a Kerbal Barely alive, "

"Gentlemen, we can rebuild him,  we have the Technology.  We have the Capability to make the world's first Bionic Kerbal.  Jebidiah Kerman will be that Kerbal. Better than what he was before.  Better...,. Stronger.... Faster....."

 

let's just be honest,  After listening to hours of what has gone on with KSP 2,

 

1. The real angle on this is that Take Two needs to give up the IP , period.. No more greedy cash grabs, No more holding of IP's because you failed on your part for either Private Disvision or yourself to deliver on a product, then this is much akin to fraud in my book, the best thing to do at this point, it to put the IP out there for Public Doman.. Eithr that, or  sell it to someone who could use it to help others learn.. (See  number 4 in this last if you want an idea on who to sell it to...)

2. , We need people (and I mean really caring people) who are going to tkae the original code, take it apart, and rebuild it with a game engine (Doesn't matter if it is Unity, or Unreal 5, but it'll be one of these two game engines..) Also I'm referring to people who have played he game, and who understand the coding of unity / Unreal 5....

3.  There will be quality control and Assurance  No Fu-bars or F-ups...

4. Get some rich guy to back it up... and in fact I suggest Elon Musk... After all he's got a lot of money to burn, and he made the Claim that "Kerbal is awesome:." Time to put your money with your mouth is Elon...  Because if you are willing to part with 100-250 million dollars of capital in order to buy it from the Greedy Game company, then by all means do it.. A lot of these people want to be aero space engineers and and scientists.... and let the ordinary folks have a say about this.. No more secrets no more hiding behind closed doors, this is a game that educates the masses on how space flight works.. and if you want a lot of people getting on that flight to Mars, then it's about high time to get these people the tolls they need in order to make your dream come true..

 

5 . If HarvestR is going to be creating a new game that deals with Rockets, then by all means, let's get people to back him for this.. After all I think steps 1 to 4 will be ignored. But I know HarvesteR,  as well as a lot of folks who want this game to succeed, well with such a backing, I think we should support whatever happens.. After all it would be nice to see a game developed by the people, for the people, After all, this is a game about rocket science, Not about money... It's about Prestige on saying "Look I can do this!" rather than, I"I have to pay more money for this?"

 

I think in the end, KSP 2 failed because Take two was extremely short sighted and didn't realize that with any project, it takes a lot of bucks to make Buck Rogers.. and Right now the Gamers are Buck Rogers... It's time we get it back to the way we need to.. Basic, Fun, Educational... No more money grabs... no more cost cutting and give no major deadlines... (I think this is where we need to set down a policty.. Take your time to turn out a qultiy game.. Is some corporation wants to ruin it, then expect a fight from this guy who was brough back into the land of space flight... And I would think that if we got a lot of Common folks who are willing to learn, and work with guys like HarveteR I think we can definitely build a game that is better than the original..

Higher , Faster, Farther... because I know humanity has the ability to go places.. the problem is.. Greed Corruption and power have blinded humanity to keep our feet on the ground.. It's time to take to the stars... especially in this life time..

 

Space_Coyote.. 

 

[Maxsimal]

On 7/6/2024 at 5:07 PM, Gargamel said:

*capybara

But anyways, this won’t see fruition for at least 5-10 years.  

I think it'll be faster than 5 years

Edited July 7 by Maxsimal

[Vanamonde]

Avoid personal attacks, please. Some comments removed. 

[MARL_Mk1]

4 hours ago, Observe said:

I'd be very happy without Kerbals. Never liked them. I play KSP in spite of Kebals. I'm in it for the space simulator.

Respectable, but I'm pretty sure you are in the minority.

[softweir]

10 minutes ago, MARL_Mk1 said:

Respectable, but I'm pretty sure you are in the minority.

Come for the Kerbals, stay for the physics. perhaps?  These days I spend almost all my time in the SPH and VAB, and I ended up turning off the Ground-crew option. However, in the early days they were the face of KSP that helped draw me in and suspend disbelief, which was especially important as my early days were in the very early days of KSP when it was extremely primitive! A new KSPoid without Kerbaloids would suit me, but I suspect it would need some sort of "face" in order to grow beyond just being "KSP without Kerbals". But there we have an issue: how can somebody replace Kerbals without being too KSP for IP safety? I'm out of ideas on that!

[Superfluous J]

10 hours ago, Observe said:

Why? I prefer KSP1 over Juno as it currently stands. Just because I don't like the stupid cartoony Kerbals, doesn't mean I don't love the rest of the game.

Why should you try a game where you build realistic-ish rockets and fly them into space without cartoony astronauts, when you stated you like a game where you build realistic-ish rockets and fly them into space with cartoony astronauts, but don't really like the cartoony astronauts?

Dunno seemed like a slam dunk. Never mind then.

Edited July 8 by Superfluous J

[kerbiloid]

The anthropomorphic frog&crab hybrids, seeing by their forehead above eyes, were nice and funny at the very beginning, when the game was just a funny rocket attraction simulator.
Also it was explainable from the "big visible faces with emotions + small other parts because who needs them" cartoon making pov.

It was long ago, and the absence of normal human proportions is a great disadvantage; the serious complexity of the bases and expeditions opposes silly giggling from caricature minions every next second.

The Kerbals should stay in the arcade game, while the KSP has stopped being arcade years ago.

At least, they shouldn't be squared.

Edited July 8 by kerbiloid

[Lisias]

I wondering what would happen if @HarvesteR made this announcement here, on Forum...

(he did on Orbiter's one, when he announced KSP! )

[kerbiloid]

14 minutes ago, Lisias said:

I wondering what would happen if @HarvesteR made this announcement here, on Forum...

(he did on Orbiter's one, when he announced KSP! )

The Orbiter forum isn't under danger. It just exists.

[dandoesstuff]

Oh I hope to god he can make a great space game with about the silliness and charm of kerbals, I don't want it to be like Juno where it just feels lifeless

[RUD Everyday]

Its been a little over 13 years since he announced KSP 1 hasnt it?

[Kerbart]

On 7/6/2024 at 1:27 PM, calabus2 said:

I don't doubt HarvesteR's abilities to pull off another space sim, but KSP has those little green gimmicks. Those little guys are a big reason KSP was a success. If he plans on trying to work those types of characters into a new game he may have a tough time walking that IP infringing tightrope with Take2. 

Those gimmicks certainly did help the game spread in the beginning - for me, a video with the terrorized looks on the Kerbals helmcams was what drew me in. But as T2 found out it's not defining success. The personal touch the Kerbals provide and other spacesims don't can easily replaced with other creatures. There is now also a hungry market for "engineer & launch your own rocket" games, so the LGM gimmick is far less important than in the 0.18 days.

If at this point we'd have to choose between (let's fantasize and assume production continues) the KSP2 EA release (again, fantasize they're continuing it) and a competitor made by Harvester, most of us will go by the latter.  Kitbash shows that he has the mechanics down, it will be written from scratch and closer to Harvester's vision of what the game should be than Nate's vision.

[Lisias]

13 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

The Orbiter forum isn't under danger. It just exists.

Well... Worst happens, we go to Orbiter Forum so. KSP started there, anyway!

https://www.orbiter-forum.com/threads/gathering-design-ideas-for-a-spaceship-builder.19974/

Back to our roots!

 

Edited July 8 by Lisias
Back to our roots! :P

[kerbiloid]

15 minutes ago, Lisias said:

we go to Orbiter Forum so. KSP started there

Korbiter Space Program