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[1.12.3] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.10.3 "Луна" 17/June/2022)


CobaltWolf
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3 minutes ago, Jcking said:

There is a native H-2 engine that Cobalt has added in the Apollo Saturn branch. The turbopumps are a bit bigger and there's a starting cartridge ripped from the J-2S model.

I was wondering what the extra subtypes were while testing the Saturn I today :P 

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18 hours ago, Zorg said:

Yeah this is how its supposed to work as it is providing thermal shielding in addition to MM protection and so would provide some boiloff mitigation. Im just starting to take a close look at Skylab balancing and it looks like the necessary module for linking boiloff to the insulation isn't in there on the lightweight wet workshop (VFB version) but it IS there on the regular wet workshop (but misconfigured). Will add it to the VFB one and balancing needs to be looked at for the WWS too.

But dont expect miracles. Realistically we should probably be looking at something similar to Centaur D. I will assume the shielding on the wet workshop versions has extra insulation over and above the historical version for the liquid hydrogen.

Boiloff is magic like on the best of days.   Build a strong enough tank and you can prevent boiloff from causing losses in propellant volume.   Provided you have a small enough volume for the gas to expand into.  Because if you apply enough pressure to a Gas, you FORCE it to become a liquid.    Now Centaur can't handle those pressures with it's balloon tanks but S-IVB SHOULD ***that is to say this is a guess on my part*** be able to.  After all they were looking to use SLUSH hydrogen (a semi solid Hydrogen) for the S-IVC.    There is a perfect point for every tank.  Sometimes that point is at 0% however (IE the tank never reaches Equalibrium between Liquid and gas conversions.)    But most tanks have a point of lowest losses I guess you could say.  I feel, given the documents on the Venus and Mars flybys using trains of S-IVC stages, that the S-IVB/C has such a point and it is significant enough to preserve a % of LH2 in space.

 

That all being said,   There is no real standard that NASA or anyone else holds people too for boiloff.  This means there is no consistent nomenclature/reporting for how long something takes to boiloff.  Rather NASA sets the standard by saying we need x% remaining propellant after Y mission parameters.   This means that we don't know the actual storage capability of a particular Tank beyond it's stated mission parameters.     So since I feel the numbers in BDB Boiloff are too aggressive (based on Centaur D.1 stage flight profiles and out of normal performance of some of those stages) I turn the BDB Boiloff function down to 25% (instead of the Default 50%)   This solves the above conundrum for me.   Except the whole S-IVB had "Perfect Balsa" Insulation and the Equalibrium point.

 

The point of all of this?  

We don't have a prefect boiloff system.  HECK it doesn't even cover LOX Boiloff etc...   But we have one, and with some self tweaking via the effectiveness slider we can fix SOME of the boiloff issues we face.  

I don't think KSP can handle a Real world Gas-Liquid-gas cycle like real boiloff deals with.  So we have what we have.

5 minutes ago, Jcking said:

There is a native H-2 engine that Cobalt has added in the Apollo Saturn branch. The turbopumps are a bit bigger and there's a starting cartridge ripped from the J-2S model.

Pull request for deletion of My H-2 patch in-coming.

Also I need to change the J-2T-400K from a separate part to a B9PS as I have found evidence that it wasn't significantly larger than the standard J-2T-250K engine.

 

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@CobaltWolfand the dev team,

My requests for QoL improvements:

Easy?

1. Apollo 7 style S-IVB rendezvous target

2. All white textures for the SM, IU, and S-IB stage to match historical flights

3. Three man variant for LM Taxi

4. Refinement of free flying LM/ATM for wetlab use. Specifically adding a node to the bottom (top?) of the ATM so it will attach to SLA. 

Harder?

1. LM Shelter and LM Truck

Hardest?

1. Adoption of the Alternate Apollo mod. An excellent piece of work by @mcdouble, but it seems to be dormant and would really benefit from some TLC and refinement. It would neatly dovetail with BDB. I especially like the 1962 LEM.

2. Additional models of the LEM to mirror the evolution of the design., i.e. the 1962, 1964, and 1965 models.

Thanks again for everything that you do. Outstanding work on the Apollo/Saturn revamp!

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, DaveyJ576 said:

@CobaltWolfand the dev team,

My requests for QoL improvements:

Easy?

1. Apollo 7 style S-IVB rendezvous target

2. All white textures for the SM, IU, and S-IB stage to match historical flights

3. Three man variant for LM Taxi

4. Refinement of free flying LM/ATM for wetlab use. Specifically adding a node to the bottom (top?) of the ATM so it will attach to SLA. 

Harder?

1. LM Shelter and LM Truck

Hardest?

1. Adoption of the Alternate Apollo mod. An excellent piece of work by @mcdouble, but it seems to be dormant and would really benefit from some TLC and refinement. It would neatly dovetail with BDB. I especially like the 1962 LEM.

2. Additional models of the LEM to mirror the evolution of the design., i.e. the 1962, 1964, and 1965 models.

Thanks again for everything that you do. Outstanding work on the Apollo/Saturn revamp!

 

 

 

LM Shelter, Lab, Taxi, and Truck are coming in I think the update after the first Apollo Saturn update.

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15 minutes ago, DaveyJ576 said:

@CobaltWolfand the dev team,

My requests for QoL improvements:

Easy?

1. Apollo 7 style S-IVB rendezvous target

2. All white textures for the SM, IU, and S-IB stage to match historical flights

3. Three man variant for LM Taxi

4. Refinement of free flying LM/ATM for wetlab use. Specifically adding a node to the bottom (top?) of the ATM so it will attach to SLA. 

Harder?

1. LM Shelter and LM Truck

Hardest?

1. Adoption of the Alternate Apollo mod. An excellent piece of work by @mcdouble, but it seems to be dormant and would really benefit from some TLC and refinement. It would neatly dovetail with BDB. I especially like the 1962 LEM.

2. Additional models of the LEM to mirror the evolution of the design., i.e. the 1962, 1964, and 1965 models.

Thanks again for everything that you do. Outstanding work on the Apollo/Saturn revamp!

 

 

 

Everything after 4 isnt QoL, its just content :P

additional LM stuff is coming next update and a dedicated LM ATM model too. 

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On 1/18/2022 at 4:09 AM, Beccab said:

Would it be feasible do add partial insulation to the J2s of the S-II stage? It looks like they had it on top of the fire wall, at least on this pic of the Apollo 13 S-II

I don't think so, since it would have to be part of the engine parts, and the insulation is different for each engine. I could do custom ones for each engine but that's a bit more detailed than we usually go with replica stuff.

 

On 1/18/2022 at 3:40 PM, Entr8899 said:

The parts themselves. The nodes for the Apollo 17 whip antennas on the engine mount happen to be the correct place for the solar panels.

I have someone looking into this.

 

On 1/19/2022 at 8:46 AM, Entr8899 said:

It seems the upper attachment node of the AARDV 0.625m adapter is too high, there is a tiny gap between it and the docking port (the same with the active port):

This should be fixed now.

 

22 hours ago, Beccab said:

Generally, all white/mostly white textures of the interstages would be great since the black and white pattern is very unique to the Saturn series, but I assume for many of these there isn't enough texture space. Completely uninformed question, would making a SOFI SIVB but with the upper part of the 200 series take texture space or is B9 advanced enough to just take that section from the 200 series one?

Uhhhhh white interstages might be possible. I don't think I could do it for all the tanks though.

RE: the second part, I think it actually is! We'd just need to make some changes to the part to split the mesh so it is controlled separately.

 

22 hours ago, Entr8899 said:

Would it be possible to make a 1.25m version of the 2.5m>0.9375m AARDV Block 1 adapter, for use with the new CADS port?

Blam.

98Ce3ag.png

 

47 minutes ago, DaveyJ576 said:

1. Apollo 7 style S-IVB rendezvous target

That actually might be doable as a part switch, since the SLA already has the payload trusses... could just include that in the switch? Probably worth the effort for all the screenshots people will take :)

 

47 minutes ago, DaveyJ576 said:

2. All white textures for the SM, IU, and S-IB stage to match historical flights

Yeah it's on the to-do list. :)

 

47 minutes ago, DaveyJ576 said:

3. Three man variant for LM Taxi

4. Refinement of free flying LM/ATM for wetlab use. Specifically adding a node to the bottom (top?) of the ATM so it will attach to SLA. 

Harder?

1. LM Shelter and LM Truck

Hardest?

1. Adoption of the Alternate Apollo mod. An excellent piece of work by @mcdouble, but it seems to be dormant and would really benefit from some TLC and refinement. It would neatly dovetail with BDB. I especially like the 1962 LEM.

2. Additional models of the LEM to mirror the evolution of the design., i.e. the 1962, 1964, and 1965 models.

Most of that stuff is planned for the next update after this one, don't worry. I'm more interested in stuff that's missing from the current parts and/or issues people have found that I can try and fix.

Regarding Alternate Apollo, I'm not particularly interested in adopting anything. Maybe some day if I get REALLY bored we can try some non-North American CSM stuff.

I have some vague interest in making the early LM designs, but idk they lack a lot of the detail that makes the historical one so cool to work on?

Edited by CobaltWolf
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4 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

I have someone looking into this.

This should be fixed now.

Blam.

98Ce3ag.png

Thank you so much, I am very happy!

A bit more of an out-there idea, but what about adding a B9PS variant to the Mercury capsule that removes the crew capacity, but adds a basic probe core and a recoverable experiment, to simulate Ham and Enos' flights? Similar to the "CosmoCat" in KNES.

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Just now, Entr8899 said:

Thank you so much, I am very happy!

A bit more of an out-there idea, but what about adding a B9PS variant to the Mercury capsule that removes the crew capacity, but adds a basic probe core and a recoverable experiment, to simulate Ham and Enos' flights? Similar to the "CosmoCat" in KNES.

This wouldn't be a bad idea for ANY of the BDB crewed capsules.

 

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41 minutes ago, Entr8899 said:

A bit more of an out-there idea, but what about adding a B9PS variant to the Mercury capsule that removes the crew capacity, but adds a basic probe core and a recoverable experiment, to simulate Ham and Enos' flights?

Hard to believe that someone else actually thought of this too. I TRIED TO MAKE A CHIMP COUCH PART. There, I said it. I failed miserably because the modeling is beyond me, but boy I learned a lot, and eventually did make a part from scratch and get it into the game. Everyone should try this :) Hahaha, no - not if you value your sanity. Anyway, I wanted something that would add a hidden node inside the Mercury Capsule and the part would snap onto that in the proper orientation. Was a fun learning experience, but alas - this is exactly the scenario I was thinking about, too.

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1 hour ago, Entr8899 said:

Thank you so much, I am very happy!

A bit more of an out-there idea, but what about adding a B9PS variant to the Mercury capsule that removes the crew capacity, but adds a basic probe core and a recoverable experiment, to simulate Ham and Enos' flights? Similar to the "CosmoCat" in KNES.

It's pretty easy to just attach a basic probe (any of BDB's probes comes with an experiment anyway) and clip it inside the capsule to simulate this exact effect.

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7 hours ago, Zorg said:

Are you playing with life support?

<snip>

Nope, but I do have the Extras config for Apollo fuel cells installed as I recall. I'm also playing with the Skyhawk science system if that helps at all.

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1 hour ago, Morphisor said:

It's pretty easy to just attach a basic probe (any of BDB's probes comes with an experiment anyway) and clip it inside the capsule to simulate this exact effect.

It is, but I agree that maybe having a probe core version (especially since you already have Boilerplate textures) would be a good option on more than one level, including that every time you clip or add a part to a rocket, you degrade performance, even if just a tiny little bit.  I currently just add the MechJeb strap-on core for the same thing, but I agree that since most (if not all) of the capsules that BDB covers had at least some capability of autonomous flight, then having it be possible internally would be nice.

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On 1/19/2022 at 1:17 PM, CobaltWolf said:

I'm never sure whether players find the B9 variants useful, or confusing for hiding parts.

Personally I love it, there are already so many parts in this mod that it is hard to scroll through and find the ones I want. Having the similar engines and other parts combined into one that you can select variants of helps with finding parts.

 

In terms of missing parts I’d like to have, am I blind or is there not a 3.75m SAF fairing? There is a 3.5m one and a 4.125m one but I can’t find one for 3.75m. I wanted one for when I was messing around with the Saturn parts and tried to make a rocket with a 4.125m power stage and a 3.75m upper stage. 
 

I also would really appreciate having a 2.5m option on the 4.125m to smaller adapter. There is the petal adapter but it is rather tall and doesn’t really fit that well if you aren’t putting an Apollo up there. Also, having a shorter version of the adapter would be nice. 

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12 minutes ago, CDSlice said:

 

 

In terms of missing parts I’d like to have, am I blind or is there not a 3.75m SAF fairing? There is a 3.5m one and a 4.125m one but I can’t find one for 3.75m. I wanted one for when I was messing around with the Saturn parts and tried to make a rocket with a 4.125m power stage and a 3.75m upper stage. 
 

Yeah we dont have a 3.75m fairing. I've been meaning to look into scaling up the 3.125m ones.

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40 minutes ago, Cheesecake said:

@pTrevTrevsYou used a girder at the LRV. Which mod is this? I had it too in the past but don`t remember which it was. I know there was a part-switching between triangle and flat.

 

24 minutes ago, OrbitalManeuvers said:

This sounds like NearFuture Construction?

Close; the switchable girders and trusses come from ReStock.

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21 minutes ago, OrbitalManeuvers said:

This sounds like NearFuture Construction?

Ah, thanks. Yes, there is a patch included for cubic, triangular and planar.

Just now, lemon cup said:

 

Close; the switchable girders and trusses come from ReStock.

No, it`s Near Future Construction. There is a patch named "NFConstructionStockPartReplacement.cfg". I had Restock installed and don`t have this parts.
 

 

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14 minutes ago, Alaygrounds said:

My greatest apologies if this has been asked before, but is there a plan to integrate the Saturn C-8/Nova?Nova_Rocket.jpg

Nope. (Though I wonder where the C-8 term came from because no document that displays what has been termed C-8 ever mentions it as C-8, it is only called the all liquid chemical, or baseline NOVA vehicle and both the NOVA direct ascent and Post-Saturn NOVA programs were separate from the work going on with Saturn).

Edited by Jcking
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13 minutes ago, Staticalliam7 said:

I would love this.

 

14 minutes ago, Alaygrounds said:

My greatest apologies if this has been asked before, but is there a plan to integrate the Saturn C-8/Nova?Nova_Rocket.jpg

Nope nope, search the thread for Nova.

Edit: requesting the meme at the top of the OP so people can never miss it.

Edited by Entr8899
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9 minutes ago, Jcking said:

Nope. (Though I wonder where the C-8 term came from because no document that displays what has been termed C-8 ever mentions it as C-8, it is only called the all liquid chemical, or baseline NOVA vehicle and both the NOVA direct ascent and Post-Saturn NOVA programs were separate from the work going on with Saturn).

I assume because the Saturn V was the C-5 and that one has 8 engines. It's kinda more logical too, it's not like the rest of the series had that much commonality either

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