The KSP Caveman Challenge 1.11.x - 1.12.x

[Rakaydos]

A relaible 3-seat suborbit craft really helps with the funds-farming. with just 1 passanger I was losing 3/4 of the rewards to 1st stage replacement, fuel and recovery costs, but I found a design that's just as reliable (though with less margin for biome exploration) that lets me get almost double the contract money. (replacing the "reserve fuel/ballast" with a capsule right above the engine."

I've also replaced the FL100s with a pair of FL200s now that I have them.

Unfortunately, a tragic science accident cost the life of bob- After jeb confirmed that the cove launch site has "splashed down as grassland" science, Bob tried to take an incomplete earlier model out to the cove to collect science, but lost control and forgot the parachute controls. The reputation hit wasnt bad, but I'll need a ton more VIP flights to get the rep up to the point where I can afford to hire a replacement scientist.

[GoSlash27]

Rakaydos,

 The Cove also has "splashed at Cove" science.

Best,

-Slashy

[Jacke]

I'm wanting to get started on another Caveman run in KSP 1.12.1/1.12.2.  I did have an aborted NCD run back on 1.6.1 which I documented.  Back then, I don't remember things being as tight for funds.  I will have to be cautious.

22 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

I think the wings may be a dead end after all. It's not like I can get a juno contract without air intakes, and the swivel's ISP is too low for a flight to the island airbase.

Well, you can get to the Island Airfield with just the initial fins and a Reliant.  Hauling a 2x Mk1 Pod roller.

Back in 2015, KSP 1.0.2 with Better Than Starting Manned, I fulfilled its first military mission with an SRB boost-glider, made from BTSM custom parts.  Also was very tricky converting from the boost to apoapsis then pitching down to a stable glide.  Mission gallery and sample screenshots.

https://imgur.com/a/zNvF3CL

Spoiler

In 2019 during my aborted NCD run, I got a contract near the Island Airfield and decided to fulfill it as well as get the base Science.  To do so, I recreated my boost-glider as a Caveman stock craft.

This craft used a different flight arc that had to get close to the waypoint (shown in the second screenshot below) to run the needed mission Crew Report.  From my comment to the first screenshot in the spoiler.

Quote

Unlike my BTSM SRB boost-glide rocket from years ago, this one would be a brute force liquid-fueled one with nearly twice the delta-V. It would arc towards its targets, first SE towards Sector Q1-PM9, then after getting the survey done, turn back north and glide over the Island Airfield. This rocket would have much more drag and would need that delta-V to counteract drag cutting its arcing path short.

https://imgur.com/a/9TYVoIN

Spoiler

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Jacke

[Rakaydos]

Thanks to @jackie for the design.

[Rakaydos]

Jeb was tragically lost to  a soft landing in the mountians, after leaving the ship to attemp to aquire "flying at mountian" science. Unfortunately, he didnt pack a personal parachute.

Val was able to pick up the spare, after getting Highland science, by running a marathon up hill (though the snow in the heat of summer, ect) to reach the edge of the mountian biome next door.

2 kerbonauts down. 1 pilot, 0 scientists remaining. 7.6/45 science to unlock probe cores  and science Jrs.

[Jacke]

1 hour ago, Rakaydos said:

Thanks to @jackie for the design.

Glad I was able to help out another Caveman.  And it's good to see the design still works.

And it's just Jacke.  And the 'e' is silent.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Jacke

[Rakaydos]

Unfortunately I got greedy. Got a contract for the terrier and tried to grab space high science. Got up there easilly enough, retroburned down to regular suborbital hop velovities, but the short 3rd stage I was using isnt as stable as the ships I was flying. Lost Val, then threw Bill after her after making minor tweaks that didnt fix the underlying problem.

[fourfa]

My early NCD biome-collection phase got enormous mileage out of this:

Highly steerable and very precise, and a lot of fun to fly.  The Hammer booster lets you target like 10+ biomes (including splashed ones), a BACC even more

[Blaarkies]

NCD run complete! 

Busy with a write up here: 

 

The Mun rover was such a chore, I had a few close calls where i wish i had more reaction wheels. Luckily I only needed to farm 8.3 biomes on Mun (it has plenty more).

I'm going to add some more interesting bits to the write up, any tips and stuff i can think of to help new Caveman challenge members.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

 

[Bev7787]

On 6/17/2021 at 3:12 PM, JAFO said:

So far as the mod that LGG made to toggle this goes, I think we'd have to classify it under "No mods that alter gameplay".  But if someone already has it set 'on' in their main settings.. well, I'm not sure... Is this yet another thing we're going to have to ask for a photo of, to prove it's 'off'? Or, like so many other adjustments Squad have made to KSP over the last few versions, that have made Caveman life easier, do we simply bow to the inevitable?

Speaking personally, I'm inclined to simply allow it, but I'd very much like to hear other viewpoints. Especially from those who've had to do ladder-riding missions, extended or otherwise.

 

Interesting. And good to know that phantom forces have been reduced. I well remember the "fun" Cavemen had on interplanetary trips, having to ensure Bob was always correctly oriented on the ladder, to prevent things going off course. I can't imagine anyone missing that "feature", but since it comes at a price... well, I think some discussion is warranted.

Thanks for doing the testing, and reporting on it. But the thing I really want to know is, how do you feel about it? Do you think we should embrace it, or insist that it be turned off?

And in the spirit of how issues were traditionally dealt with in tribes, I'd like to convene a Clan Meeting of all Cavemen and Cavewomen, especially the senior members, to hear what they think.

@GoSlash27, @Superfluous J, @Moesly_Armlis, @micha, @Terwin, @Bev7787, @joshudson, @Rakaydos, @IncongruousGoat, @ManEatingApe, @dvader, @Muetdhiver, @Speeding Mullet,  @Mr. Peabody, @MinimalMinmus, @fourfa, @Jacke.  As senior Clan members, you are all invited to share your thoughts on this development, and how we ought to handle it.

Everyone else is welcome to express their opinions/ideas as well.

Sorry for not responding last month and I don't know if my response really matters anymore. I will have to read this entire thread because I am genuinely interested in this. Haven't been on the forum for a while and I'm honestly surprised this challenge is still going 6 years after it was created.

 

edit: holy it’s been a while with all the new stuff having done this challenge back on 1.0.5. I still have that save sitting in my old laptop. I wonder if I should boot it up...

Edited July 31, 2021 by Bev7787

[Rakaydos]

New NCD run. This time, I was able to get within a half hour's jog of the cove on my first toursit suborbit flight- I've got the required trajectory on my standard Bezos flight figured out.

In addition to the usual, I'm skipping wings AND advanced engines, and trying to save up for the probe core and science Jr. I managed to get space high science by accepting I was going to be throwing away practically the whole rocket- I made sure I had plenty of funds to recover afterwards.

Currently have 30.9 science, and am missing mountian science, island airflield microbiome, and all the ladder rider space-above science, of which Shores, Water, and Grassland should be easy, and highlands and mountians may be possible. also, if I need it I can get another science or two from cleaning up the last bits of mystery goo from the entire KSC and surrounding biomes.

My space-high disposable also might be able to reach the Desert biome. If it can reach orbit, that's another science too.

[Rakaydos]

So with a few minor changes, I was able to get my high-science rocket into orbit, and bring it back to kerbin.

...And now all the tourists want orbital flights or they wont give me completion bonuses. Lady, you arnt paying me enough to do a 2 seater to orbit at my tech level. I barely made it with a 1 seater.

So, slow death by funds shortage incoming. I did get crew reports from landing in the desert, and a science from orbiting, and I managed two ladder rider flights (Shores and grassland), but had a high casualty rate. 37.8 science, with desert expiriments, mountian science, and island airfield science still available, but next time, I need to get them before achieving orbit.

[Blaarkies]

Does anyone know what the ETA is for that 1.12.2 update? I really want to continue the NCD savegame, but I'm afraid of the struts-over-docking-ports issue, can't really build big with that going on.
Maybe this is a chance to go finish up all the easier levels 

 

[dvader]

I finished a "caveman extended" run. After finishing ordinary caveman, I upgraded the science center once, finished all the available science nodes, upgraded again, finished all nodes. I can post a full story if anyone is interested. I'm not sure what I think of it. I started by sending an MPL to Minmus without thinking too much about it. When in place I remembered/realised both how overpowered the MPL is and how annoying it is to maintain. Waiting 100 days for each 500 science just isn't fun and you could easily finish the entire tech tree with just enough grind (and with about 30k science to spare). So, instead, I decided to send a probe to Eve using the MPL to unlock any tech I needed. The non-upgraded tracking station wasn't a problem since I could just send a couple of 100G relay antennas into high eccentric polar orbit. In short, it was kind of fun but also nothing really new. I don't think I would do it on a higher tier because of all the funding grind that would be required just to upgrade the R&D center. I don't think I'd mind the science grind that much since it forces you to go to new places which is the fun part.

A couple of pictures.

The lawn assembled MPL. I had to try 5-10 times because of docking ports that would not undock. Any ideas why? It worked at last, but I don't know why (and there are still some error messages whenever I switch to the MPL).

Spoiler

My nicely planned Eve return craft, which couldn't return as planned because the Kraken decided I could not detach the parachute (it was between the crafts). So, I had to land the whole thing instead. The explosions have improved a lot since earlier version.

Spoiler

 

 

@BlaarkiesI just updated to 1.12.2 (europe).

[Rakaydos]

restarted the NCD run. up to 24 science with Island runway, mountains, highlands, desert, space high, and space above science theoretically available. I need the 45 point matsci/probe core node before I make a serious bid for orbit, or I'll run out of money again.

I was extremely fortunate during my rollers, though- I got crew reports for Flying at Flagpole and Flying at VAB, for almost an extra science point.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Rakaydos

[Rakaydos]

Lost both Jeb and Val to exploration failures.

I dont want to reset because of the Flying at KSC scans, but I'm going to need a few hundred manually-flown tourist flights to have enough money and reputation to hire a new pilot.

[fourfa]

For me, a death in NCD is a reset.  There's enough grind as it is without having to recover rep and cash from a fatality, and with enough practice you get through the marginally-safe reentry phase of play pretty quick.  After that there's little risk

[Rakaydos]

17 hours ago, fourfa said:

For me, a death in NCD is a reset.  There's enough grind as it is without having to recover rep and cash from a fatality, and with enough practice you get through the marginally-safe reentry phase of play pretty quick.  After that there's little risk

My problem is, I  am stalled at expendable to low kerbin orbit. I need enough science to either go further, to mun flyby, or to get another science expiriment and probe cores. This run, I've got .8 science that I cannot expect to get in another run.

 

Which is why I grinded out 10 double VIP missions today. 40 rep got me above -890 rep, so about 3 more days of that to get into Orange rep, and presumably a crew price drop. Then we see how much more I need to grind to afford them.

[Rakaydos]

got 15 or so VIP missions today, am over -800 rep. Alas, the astronaut complex remains skeptical of my casualty rate. if the price to hire doesnt go down, I'm about an 8th of the way to hiring one anyway.

[Blaarkies]

On 8/9/2021 at 11:55 PM, Rakaydos said:

 I need enough science to either go further, to mun flyby, or to get another science expiriment and probe cores. 

Did you find a "Test Terrier at launchpad" contract? With those in hand, you can borrow the Terrier engine to easily do the first Mun+Minmus orbits and Solar science. And if funding becomes a problem and you need to make more funds via contracts, you can complete the contract on the launchpad to get the contract slot back.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Blaarkies

[Rakaydos]

34 minutes ago, Blaarkies said:

Did you find a "Test Terrier at launchpad" contract? With those in hand, you can borrow the Terrier engine to easily do the first Mun+Minmus orbits and Solar science. And if funding becomes a problem and you need to make more funds via contracts, you can complete the contract on the launchpad to get the contract slot back.

Perhaps it's just my penny pinching, but I keep trying to recover more of the spacecraft than just the capsule, and it feels like that doesnt work at this tech level past low suborbit. 

[Blaarkies]

1 hour ago, Rakaydos said:

Perhaps it's just my penny pinching, but I keep trying to recover more of the spacecraft than just the capsule, and it feels like that doesnt work at this tech level past low suborbit. 

Yeah for the short KSC hops i stuck to recovering everything, since there is so little money at the start. But when a Kerbal is onboard an orbital trip, that all became 2nd priority...I can't risk a capsule burning up or darting headfirst before the parachutes can save it, no recovery money will make up for that.

Once the satellite contracts started, it was smooth sailing. I launched for about 8000, and those contracts provide +-12000(sometimes they require science equipment which cuts into profits). Doing double contract missions per launch is how I saved some backup funds, to then use for a few science-first missions.

But that first part before the satellite contracts is definitely the hardest

[Rakaydos]

Also, I have a REALLY nice suborbit hopper. Even without a pilot, I reach ~75 km at burnout and have to turn off my swivel gimbal to avoid overcontrolling on ascent, and on the way down, physics warp and prime the parachutes while red- they'll activate under 2 km, which is plenty as long as you dont undershoot the highlands and come down in the mountians. when I get the balance right it even swings horizontal when fully deployed.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Rakaydos

[Blaarkies]

2 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

Also, I have a REALLY nice suborbit hopper. Even without a pilot, I reach ~75 km at burnout and have to turn off my swivel gimbal to avoid overcontrolling on ascent, and on the way down, physics warp and prime the parachutes while red- they'll activate under 2 km, which is plenty as long as you dont miss the highlands and come down in the mountians. when I get the balance right it even swings horizontal when fully deployed.

Thats sounds really dangerous, but if it works it works 

I'm continuing on the savegame where I completed my NCD run, and it's quite funny how ludicrous the building upgrade prices are...it's barely even an option at these difficulty settings, nevermind the Caveman rules prohibiting it  Think i'll focus on the contracts building first to get better profit margins, then the expensive R&D building upgrade, and personally visit the MH launch sites before enabling them in the difficulty settings

[Rakaydos]

some tweaks to make the suborbital tourist vehical even more hands off (removing the science gear- i'm pretty sure it was the barometer that was throwing me off course), and grinded out another 100 rep.  Sometimes it seems you get more rep for a mission than the stars strictly indicate- anyone know what's up there? up to 98k funds, but the lowest bidder in the astronaut complex is 400k, even at -698 rep. At least I can see yellow on the rep meter now...