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Kerbonauts, we want to hear from you!

StarSlay3r

By StarSlay3r
in 2021

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Ben J. Kerman

Ben J. Kerman

Posted
Posted (edited)

When I did the "If I had a magic wand and could add anything to KSP", I almost did 5 things! I narrowed it down to "crane slew rings".

I know, Breaking Ground's servos are OK, but I need something better. Really, I need tracks better than the ones Kerbal Foundries provides. I will continue that in the add-on section of the forum.

Edited by Ben J. Kerman
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StarSlay3r

StarSlay3r

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Posted
23 hours ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

My guess is that the post is hidden and then revealed which “posts” it, but not in the typical manner. This happened with TOTM at one point. 

That is correct, that is the typical method we use for our planned posts. Since this is on our radar we will look into it.  Thank you for letting us know.

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Cydonian Monk

Cydonian Monk

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Has somebody actually read the rules/disclaimer in the beginning?

No, seriously?

Yes, and I can't take the survey or provide any other such feedback as a result. Also why I don't have an account on the new bug tracker and no longer provide any suggestions on this forum or do anything that in any way resembles what I do professionally. 

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cubinator

cubinator

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, dave1904 said:

The magic wand wish for KSP 1 and the feature I cannot wait for in KSP2 are the same. Axial Tilt. 

The janky axial tilt workaround in RSS is the single reason I can't play it. It just hurts to look at the solar system all skew like that.

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Dman979

Dman979

Posted
Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Has somebody actually read the rules/disclaimer in the beginning?

Yeah. It reads scary because of Legal Reasons, but it's basically saying that you are old enough to take the survey, that you're taking it of your own free will, and that you'll allow them to use your responses as they see fit.

(I am not a lawyer, so my free advice is worth what you paid for it.)

Edited by Dman979
Added clarity.
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Greenfire32

Greenfire32

Posted
Posted

I have two questions and a statement:

1) Why does a survey need terms and conditions?
2) Why can't you explain in plain English what I'm agreeing to, rather than hide whatever the hell behind a wall of legalese?

3) I'm not agreeing to any kind of legally binding anything for something as small as a simple survey. That's insane. You want to survey your customers, survey them. Don't subject them to a bunch of legal crap.

 

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Dman979

Dman979

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Greenfire32 said:

1) Why does a survey need terms and conditions?

Big company with big income and big legal department has big CYA incentive in case something goes big wrong.

3 hours ago, Greenfire32 said:


2) Why can't you explain in plain English what I'm agreeing to, rather than hide whatever the hell behind a wall of legalese?

1. You're 18, or are 16 with a parent's consent.
2. You agree to participate in the survey under the conditions listed below.
3. You will give feedback about aspects of KSP.
4. The feedback becomes property of Big Company immediately.
5. If local laws prohibit the feedback from becoming property of Big Company immediately, then the feedback is your property. Since it is your property, you agree to give ownership of the feedback to Big Company.
6. If local laws prohibit you from giving Big Company ownership of the feedback, then you allow Big Company to use the feedback in any way that Big Company wants.1|
7. If you allow Big Company to use the feedback in any way that Big Company wants, then you waive any residual rights to control of the feedback.
8. If local laws prohibit you from waiving residual rights, then you agree to use the rights reasonably and not to harm the Big Company.
9. The Big Company can use or modify the feedback if it wants to, but it doesn't have to do either of those things.
10. You don't get to control how the feedback is used, and you don't get public credit for it.
11. If the Big Company makes any money from using the feedback, then you don't get any.
12. You don't have other commitments that would keep you from agreeing to the agreement.
13. Big Company doesn't need anyone else's permission to use the feedback.
14. You agree not to sue Big Company about the feedback.
15. You agree that you're able to agree to the agreement.
16. If you break the agreement, then the Big Company would get hurt badly.
17. The agreement can't be undone.
18. The agreement will be viewed in the best possible way for Big Company.
19. There's no other parts to the agreement besides the stuff listed in it.
20. New York State laws will control the agreement.
21. The agreement starts when you accept the agreement.

I am not an employee of Big Company nor am I a lawyer, and my explanation is worth what you paid for it. What I wrote above is hugely simplified, and lacks a lot of the nuance in the original language. Attorneys get paid to write and interpret highly technical documents where words have specific meanings that can be different from their common usage. They also get paid not to make mistakes that would hurt their clients. In a situation like this, I'm sure that the writing could be made easier to understand but (if you're an attorney) then the legalese version was the quickest way to write a simple agreement that covered all the bases.

 

3 hours ago, Greenfire32 said:

3) I'm not agreeing to any kind of legally binding anything for something as small as a simple survey. That's insane. You want to survey your customers, survey them. Don't subject them to a bunch of legal crap.

That's your prerogative, I suppose. :)

 

1This sets out the terms of a license. You might already be familiar with how licenses work from using or creating a mod.

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Souptime

Souptime

Posted
Posted

meh, they didnt ask for any of your contact info or made you log in so its like you never existed.

No one listens to those "You must be *Insert age here* to access this content" anyway :rolleyes:

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dave1904

dave1904

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 7/7/2021 at 11:25 AM, kerbiloid said:

Has somebody actually read the rules/disclaimer in the beginning?

No, seriously?

I didn't even read the disclaimer on the loan on my house that I signed last week. As long as they don't notice that I got a 3080 with some of it im ok

Edited by dave1904
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ColdJ

ColdJ

Posted
Posted
On 7/7/2021 at 7:25 PM, kerbiloid said:

Has somebody actually read the rules/disclaimer in the beginning?

No, seriously?

Exactly what I was going to say but you beat me to it.

In simplist terms. "We want creative ideas to improve our product but we don't want to pay you for them. If your ideas are popular then we will profit from them and forget you ever existed." "Do not expect recognition or recompense for any idea you provide us with."

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MechBFP

MechBFP

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ColdJ said:

Exactly what I was going to say but you beat me to it.

In simplist terms. "We want creative ideas to improve our product but we don't want to pay you for them. If your ideas are popular then we will profit from them and forget you ever existed." "Do not expect recognition or recompense for any idea you provide us with."

I understand the legal intentions behind it, but it comes off as ridiculous and rude, especially because it wouldn't be enforceable in court anyway because you don't sign it with your name or any sort of identifiable information, and therefore they have literally no idea WHO actually wrote the feedback. At best they could cross reference it to an IP address but that wouldn't hold any water in court anyway, unless of course you actually admitted that you submitted your idea in that survey. I would tend to think anyone insane enough to try to take a company to court over an idea they freely submitted to them wouldn't be the truthful type either lol.

I think their legal department needs to take a step back and see for the forest for the trees.

 

Edited by MechBFP
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ColdJ

ColdJ

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

At best they could cross reference it to an IP address but that wouldn't hold any water in court anyway.

Don't forget they have your Email address, even if somehow you have an anonymous 1, legal companies could still find ways to trace it back.

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Dientus

Dientus

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, MechBFP said:

I think their legal department needs to take a step back and see for the forest for the trees.

I look at it as the "Caution Hot Coffee Burns" warning label.

 

And when done a certain way a digital signature is legally binding, but since that isn't the case here, I understand exactly what you mean.

 

For me, at the end of the day, I believe I am fully aware of all implications and use of any data/feedback coming from me, afterall I did skim the EULA, and since this is one of the few forums I trust, as well as a game I fully support, it doesn't bother me. If they get a great idea from me and make 1 million off of it, great, it's not like I would be able to do the same anyway and it benefits me gamewise. If I didn't trust the forums or the company behind it I never would have done the feedback in the first place.

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JorgeCS

JorgeCS

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 7/7/2021 at 10:25 AM, kerbiloid said:

Has somebody actually read the rules/disclaimer in the beginning?

No, seriously?

I thought I was the only picky one. I did read, thus I didn't submit the survey. 

Now I finished reading all the posts. Although @Dman979 did a great job (out of his scope, we know ;) ) explaining it, in some cases it seems that what bothered us is not the fact itself about having the T&C, but the 'rudeness' so to say, the difference between our day by day here with the community and 'that' (where is a pukeing emoji when you need it?)

Meh, enjoy. One more like that, one less KSP2 that BigCompany will sell.

Edited by JorgeCS
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ColdJ

ColdJ

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Dientus said:

If I didn't trust the forums or the company behind it I never would have done the feedback in the first place.

There in lies the trap. You see it up on the forum and so think "This is safe and done by the people I trust". This is not the case. The people who set up and run and moderate this forum did not create the survey. Also, even if the original creators of KSP have now been absorbed into the KSP2 creation engine, it is not the passion project that embraces independent external content developement, that the KSP we love so much does. The fact that they felt the need to have a "Agree to give us everything" preface, rather than just a free exchange of ideas, shows the nature of the new developement.

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Caerfinon

Caerfinon

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, ColdJ said:

they felt the need to have a "Agree to give us everything" preface

I thought it mostly boiled down to "All your bases are belong to us" to which I respond "Move Zig! For great justice!". Check and mate ;p

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James M

James M

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, Kerb Your Enthusiasm said:

It's so frustrating there aren't any yet. I love playing stock and  don't want to rely on part mods, and trying to use the robotic parts like hinges to make bigger ones expose how embarrassingly weak they are, and almost useless.

That 12 m/s kills me. Especially when large struts have 60m/s!

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