HarvesteR has some news...and some hope

[Frozen_Heart]

I wonder what he has in mind. Hitting that holy grail again is going to be really hard.

KSP's simplicity but accuracy, combined with the goofy little green guys played a huge part in its success.

Not only that, but KSP also benefitted from a massive amount of talent coming in in the form of other devs. Attempting to replicate that as a solo developer again might be asking a lot.

[ColdJ]

2 hours ago, Lisias said:

Well... Worst happens, we go to Orbiter Forum so. KSP started there, anyway!

Well that was like being able to travel back in time.

[Skorj]

The big problem with KSP1 (and therefore KSP2) is the physics is just done wrong from an efficiency perspective, in a couple of ways.  HarvesteR sorted out joint flex in KitHack, so that's halfway there.  The other problem - making everything not being controlled "on rails" - is something anyone with a RL physics background could help him with.  For a new game that does these things right, there wouldn't be a problem with either 1000-part ships or 1000 satellites in orbit for  some sort of colony / large economic system play.

I can't imaging HarversteR would just make the mostly-sandbox KSP again.  He's been there, done that, got the t-shirt.    And  I think Juno will eventually be a very solid sandbox-with-missions game for those who want that.   But a rocket sim with an actual game behind it, with a real progression system and some sort of story, that would be amazing IMO.  Or lean into multiplayer and combat, which isn't my bag but would certainly find an audience.

Edited July 8 by Skorj

[Maxsimal]

Glad Dean is spilling the beans on this.

 

[kerbiloid]

11 hours ago, Kerbart said:

On 7/6/2024 at 8:27 PM, calabus2 said:

I don't doubt HarvesteR's abilities to pull off another space sim, but KSP has those little green gimmicks. Those little guys are a big reason KSP was a success. If he plans on trying to work those types of characters into a new game he may have a tough time walking that IP infringing tightrope with Take2. 

Those gimmicks certainly did help the game spread in the beginning - for me, a video with the terrorized looks on the Kerbals helmcams was what drew me in.

The gimmicks can be of more human-like proportions to be at the same time funny (for those who needs it) and normally match the historical human spacecrafts and cabins.
I can recall just several mods, where the craft parts were grotesque cartoonish.

For example:

Spoiler

 

 

Replace its head with less scary, and the limbs with less froggy, and it would be almost a Kerbal, but matching the human crafts.

It may even be squatting on idle, like the humans do, to have them Kerbal-like.
 

Spoiler

[cocoscacao]

On 7/7/2024 at 10:06 PM, Space_Coyote said:

Get some rich guy to back it up... and in fact I suggest Elon Musk... After all he's got a lot of money to burn, and he made the Claim that "Kerbal is awesome

I still don't get why anyone takes Elon's statements so seriously. He is just his own propaganda machine. 

Also,"kerbal like" doesn't necessarily mean space travel sim. Kithack is also kerbal-like game... 

Edited July 9 by cocoscacao

[Lisias]

16 hours ago, Maxsimal said:

Glad Dean is spilling the beans on this.

This is starting to get interesting...

[EDIT: Involuntary offtopic spoiled.]

Spoiler

On 7/7/2024 at 5:06 PM, Space_Coyote said:

4. Get some rich guy to back it up... and in fact I suggest Elon Musk... After all he's got a lot of money to burn, and he made the Claim that "Kerbal is awesome:." Time to put your money with your mouth is Elon...  Because if you are willing to part with 100-250 million dollars of capital in order to buy it from the Greedy Game company, then by all means do it.. A lot of these people want to be aero space engineers and and scientists.... and let the ordinary folks have a say about this.. No more secrets no more hiding behind closed doors, this is a game that educates the masses on how space flight works.. and if you want a lot of people getting on that flight to Mars, then it's about high time to get these people the tolls they need in order to make your dream come true..

That's the catch: Musk is willing to burn a lot of money, as long the stunt is part of a business plan. He bought Twitter as a way to accelerate the development of his X, The Everything App.

I don't think it's impossible he can be lured to burn money on this, but someone needs to convince him first - and without a business plan, I doubt he will foot a single USD on this stunt. And, nope, he's not going do manage the development himself, he have Tesla and SpaceX to care about (and I'm not even mentioning Twitter X - damn, now I did).

I still think that luring John Carmack is the most viable way (assuming it's possible) - this guy have a huge experience in both Industries, and I'm betting that Musk may be lured into investing some money (if not the whole amount) if Carmack could be convinced to head the project.

Spoiler

On a side note, I really doubt that telling him to "put his money where his mouth is" is going to do any favours to this idea. Musk is incoercible. Really.

Buy him nice flowers and (really good) chocolates and perhaps you may have a chance, otherwise things will not run as you expect - ask Roscosmos about.

 

Edited July 9 by Lisias
Involuntary offtopic spoiled.

[Kerbart]

8 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

The gimmicks can be of more human-like proportions to be at the same time funny (for those who needs it) and normally match the historical human spacecrafts and cabins.
I can recall just several mods, where the craft parts were grotesque cartoonish.

  Reveal hidden contents

Isn't that literally what I said?

19 hours ago, Kerbart said:

Those gimmicks certainly did help the game spread in the beginning - for me, a video with the terrorized looks on the Kerbals helmcams was what drew me in. But as T2 found out it's not defining success. The personal touch the Kerbals provide and other spacesims don't can easily replaced with other creatures. There is now also a hungry market for "engineer & launch your own rocket" games, so the LGM gimmick is far less important than in the 0.18 days. [...]

What KSP showed is that it's much more fun to put your astronauts on a celestial body (and get them back) than merely putting a lander there. They probably need to have a cuteness factor. Far fewer players will be inclined to a rescue mission of all they've stranded are a bunch of GI-Joe a-holes. But they don't need to be Kerbals either.

Given the development history, there's probably also a practical reason Kerbals are the way they are. You're not investing a ton of resources in modeling your crew when thety're basically a green tube with two white spheres for eyes. And that's fine for software that's basically proof of concept. Redoing the project now, there's no reason why they can't be capybaras, chipmunks or washing bears (although I'd avoid the latter lest you'll have a costly Guardians of the Galaxy lawsuit that you'll probably win but is costing you a lot of money regardless).

 

 

[Izny]

Can anyone call Team17 to ask if we can use Worms? I'd fly them to Mün and back. 

[Scarecrow71]

Seeing as we are just throwing names out there to invest in the IP, why not go to the top of the rich pile and ask Bill Gates?

[GluttonyReaper]

33 minutes ago, Izny said:

Can anyone call Team17 to ask if we can use Worms? I'd fly them to Mün and back. 

Every Worm knows the quickest way to the Mün is via ninja rope...

[Izny]

1 minute ago, GluttonyReaper said:

Every Worm knows the quickest way to the Mün is via ninja rope...

prod should invoke krakendrive. more efficient.

[Dakitess]

If it happens, I really hope and I would be quite confident that his main goal would be to get a proper technically up to date game, like, a solid foundation of the core-game, nothing fancy, no Multiplayer, no colonies, no new gameplay, etc. Just KSP1, but running smoothly and taking benefit from 12 years of new graphics engine, new physics engine, news assets, etc etc, so that it looks nice and runs well.

This is, to me, the start of a fresh and successful KSP2 which would then expand along the years, like a proper and legit Open-Access game which ensured the initial success of KSP1.

Please, pretty please... This is all what we need, at first. Being able to build 1000+ parts on decent rig, with a massive overhaul of the graphics, to bring everything to another level and allow for some modding and new further contents.

[Vanamonde]

This thread is about HarvesteR's comments. Let's not re-do that whole thing about Musk or others taking over KSP, please. It's been done. 

[kicka55]

On 7/6/2024 at 7:27 PM, calabus2 said:

I don't doubt HarvesteR's abilities to pull off another space sim, but KSP has those little green gimmicks. Those little guys are a big reason KSP was a success. If he plans on trying to work those types of characters into a new game he may have a tough time walking that IP infringing tightrope with Take2. 

Take2 has no IP on little green men. They only have trademarks on "Kerbal" as a name. I think I would like little blue people as much. 

 

Edited July 9 by kicka55

[GGG-GoodGuyGreg]

6 hours ago, Izny said:

Can anyone call Team17 to ask if we can use Worms? I'd fly them to Mün and back. 

That would be a merge of two of my favorite games. 
would be amazing!

especially if you could build crew name them and change their voices and appearance like in Worms. 

[Izny]

1 minute ago, GGG-GoodGuyGreg said:

That would be a merge of two of my favorite games. 
would be amazing!

especially if you could build crew name them and change their voices and appearance like in Worms. 

beavis and butthead soundpack is needed, yes.

and ren &stimpy*

Edited July 9 by Izny

[calabus2]

3 hours ago, kicka55 said:

Take2 has no IP on little green men. They only have trademarks on "Kerbal" as a name. I think I would like little blue people as much. 

 

They own everything that is KSP. If someone were to put out a similar type game with characters that even remotely resemble kerbals T2 would sue their pants off. Doesn't matter if T2 was wrong, a small developer would buckle under the legal costs to defend themselves. It would be a stupid move to even try such a project. 

[Skorj]

2 minutes ago, calabus2 said:

They own everything that is KSP. If someone were to put out a similar type game with characters that even remotely resemble kerbals T2 would sue their pants off. Doesn't matter if T2 was wrong, a small developer would buckle under the legal costs to defend themselves. It would be a stupid move to even try such a project. 

Kerbals have a very distinctive look, though.  Plenty of room for cute, emotive characters with a different design.

[calabus2]

12 minutes ago, Skorj said:

Kerbals have a very distinctive look, though.  Plenty of room for cute, emotive characters with a different design.

I absolutely agree. I'm just saying it can be tough to dodge a lawsuit no matter how stupid the suit is. T2 isn't exactly the Mother Teresa of game companies. 

[Mitokandria]

1 hour ago, calabus2 said:

I absolutely agree. I'm just saying it can be tough to dodge a lawsuit no matter how stupid the suit is. T2 isn't exactly the Mother Teresa of game companies. 

Just have to prove no one could mistake the new character for a Kerbal or something from Kerbal Space Program. Not as tight a rope as one would expect as Kerbals are quite distinct.

[Turbo Ben]

Do I remember HarvestR saying Kerbals were originally made of tin foil or something?

So, on the theme of metallic, what about cute/goofy robots? Pretty sure T2 would have a hard time saying they were anything like Kerbals.

Would be a good excuse as to why life support wouldn't be needed and why they don't age on a 100 year interstellar flight

[Superfluous J]

21 hours ago, Maxsimal said:

Glad Dean is spilling the beans on this.

What beans are being spilled? The post you quoted or screen shot or whatever is an ad for KitHack which isn't exactly bean spilling.

[PDCWolf]

17 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

What beans are being spilled? The post you quoted or screen shot or whatever is an ad for KitHack which isn't exactly bean spilling.

This is right after he met with Dean Hall. Nebulous, yes, but intentions are very clearly communicated, and we know Dean Hall also wanted in.

[Fizzlebop Smith]

Holy smokes. Clearly communicated intentions.. Wonder what that would feel like.