Alternate forum for KSP1?

[DeadJohn]

If the KSP franchise was shuttered and we lost these forums, where would people go to discuss KSP1?

KSP1 is the only game I frequently discuss. I play other games and read their forums but rarely post, so I don't have any other favorite gaming forums. My first instinct if the KSP forums died would be to try contacting some of my favorite modders to see where they went.

(There's a gloomy mix of rumor+news about layoffs in the KSP2 subforum. That's not what I'm here to discuss, just offering context about why I'm asking my question.)

[AtomicTech]

2 hours ago, DeadJohn said:

If the KSP franchise was shuttered and we lost these forums, where would people go to discuss KSP1?

KSP1 is the only game I frequently discuss. I play other games and read their forums but rarely post, so I don't have any other favorite gaming forums. My first instinct if the KSP forums died would be to try contacting some of my favorite modders to see where they went.

(There's a gloomy mix of rumor+news about layoffs in the KSP2 subforum. That's not what I'm here to discuss, just offering context about why I'm asking my question.)

We might just have to make another forum.

Edited May 1 by AtomicTech

[Jacke]

EDIT: Below, I've thought of a preparatory safety measure: join existing KSP-oriented Discords, set up by KSP video makers, streamers, and modders.  There's several I'm already a member of.  If these forums get shut down in short order, the discussion would start on them of what to do to do about it.
https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/224662-alternate-forum-for-ksp1/?do=findComment&comment=4395839

I was thinking about starting this sort of topic.  Because I want to start playing KSP again.

But I fear with the uncertainty we face, this forum could disappear overnight.  The organizing hub of our community, discussions, modding, and stories, gone.  Many existing game companies have shut down forums and replaced them with Discords.  Discord is good for many things, but for being the hub of a community of the nature of KSP's I think forums are far better.

I've gone through this loss of community before, with City of Heroes.  2012 August 31st the shutdown was announced.  2012 November 30th I and many other City fans played like we'd never get another chance to play the game we love again.  Because that's what we thought would happen.

But a miracle happened and now there's a stable community-run City of Heroes.

I do not expect that to happen again.

If these forums were closed but KSP was still available on Steam, maybe something could be done to preserve this community.

I think if we don't have a good backup home for KSP before this one goes away, especially if it's loss is rapid, I don't know what will survive, if anything.

I'm calling on a few KSP players to see what they think.  My apologies for tagging you all, but I think this is a clear and present issue that should have some discussion now.  Hopefully more will join the discussion and something good will come of it.

@HebaruSan, @JAFO, @JoeSchmuckatelli, @K^2, @kurgut, @linuxgurugamer, @Lisias, @ManEatingApe, @mikegarrison, @RayneCloud, @Superfluous J

Edited June 5 by Jacke

[K^2]

My suggestion would be to set up an unofficial community Discord for KSP forums somewhere, independent of any official servers. Even if there's not much happening there, it can be a meeting point to discuss alternatives.

I definitely wouldn't recommend rushing to create a new forum somewhere. The unfortunate reality of the forums is that they are a bit tedious to moderate when they grow large, and entirely pointless if they don't. Having gone through some exoduses in early 2000s when certain game communities crashed, and having been involved in setting up some community forums as replacements, I've stepped on a lot of these rakes. So until we have a good idea of how many people would be interested in participating and running the place, I wouldn't start on it.

[Lisias]

I agree that creating a new place is a bad idea, not only someone will have to upfront some money, but running the place is a hell of a work.

And places to go there're some, I don't think there's a need to create a new one - there're Steam and Reddit already, and they are moderated. I like Steam's moderation more than Reddit, but Reddit is easier to post content.

I tried Discord, couldn't get a grasp on it - I'm not online all the time, and that is a live chat at best. Really messy to do anything other than bragging and ask the same questions again and again.

Losing Forum will be a huge blow on historical material. A lot, really lot of useful content for both players and modders are available here, 10 years of development and playing. Losing access to it will be devastating.

I don't know how to preserve it. Archive is not saving Forum pages, probably due copyright grounds (it's almost sure someone at TTI or PD requested to blacklist Forum's domain there).

 

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

I'm hoping to see the forums continue.  KSP1 is still a game, after all. *

FWIW  -  This is my all time favorite internet community. 

(especially the regulars at S&SF) 

I'd like to give a shout out to @Snark, @Vanamonde and @Gargamel who I credit for wrangling all of us, all these years.  You guys are saints for helping us keep it civil and fun! 

Hopefully this place is still here in a year - but if not... Thanks for all the fish! 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 3 by JoeSchmuckatelli

[Superfluous J]

8 hours ago, Jacke said:

I'm calling on a few KSP players to see what they think.  My apologies for tagging you all, but I think this is a clear and present issue that should have some discussion now.  Hopefully more will join the discussion and something good will come of it.

I don't mind being tagged though I don't have much to contribute. Communities fade, it's just a sad fact of life. In all the communities I've ever been in I was always one of the more... prolific posters. These include:

• Doom Usenet groups
• Stars! Usenet groups
• Magic the Gathering Usenet groups and forum
• National Novel Writing Month forum
• Various podcasting forums**
• Minecraft forum
• FTL forum**
• KSP forum*
• Factorio forum
• Dyson Sphere Program Discord

Some of them faded away. Some of them my interest faded away. Some more (**) changed to Discord and I'm still on them in a very diminished way.

One single community (this one) has both stayed in its original form and has kept my interest for over a decade. Both of those are in doubt now, which is sad but... I guess everything goes away eventually.

I'd go to a new forum of it popped up after this one went away (but not before probably). Same with a Discord server though I'd be far less active on one. I won't commit to helping set one up enough. I feel that phase of my life is petty much spent.

Edited June 4 by Superfluous J

[Jacke]

4 hours ago, Lisias said:

I tried Discord, couldn't get a grasp on it - I'm not online all the time, and that is a live chat at best. Really messy to do anything other than bragging and ask the same questions again and again.

I find Discord more useful for smaller groups of people.  It started as a just-works way to get voice comms in any game.  Works well for my gaming guild Repeat Offenders, but we also have our own forums.  A better example is the Homecoming Testers and Devs have a Discord for a lot of the communication on Closed Alpha and Closed Beta development before it goes to Open Beta.

@K^2 is right, forums need security and moderation and that only grows with the player base.  (Discords need security and moderation too.)

But forums allow a number of people in a game's community to interact and have persistent documents.  I have fond memories of Early Access playing Subnautica and participating and getting info on the Unknown Worlds forums.  I don't think it would have worked as well just as a Discord.  It's also the example of a gaming company shutting down its forums (likely as an economy measure) that I learned how so much was lost.

@Superfluous J is right.  I remember communities I was part of over the years, most all gone now.  Outside of my Regimental Association and a local professional group, Repeat Offenders and City of Heroes is my oldest community and that's from 2005 and on.  Others I joined later have now gone.

@Lisias is also right.  There's a whole lot of KSP history here (though there was that major forum incident in which the 20 top mod threads were all lost, which to me means the Better Than Starting Manned topic with all that subcommunity is now just as much dust in the wind).

Without these forums, I can't see the modding of KSP continuing as it is.  I hope we don't lose this.

[RayneCloud]

9 hours ago, Jacke said:

I was thinking about starting this sort of topic.  Because I want to start playing KSP again.

But I fear with the uncertainty we face, this forum could disappear overnight.  The organizing hub of our community, discussions, modding, and stories, gone.  Many existing game companies have shut down forums and replaced them with Discords.  Discord is good for many things, but for being the hub of a community of the nature of KSP's I think forums are far better.

I've gone through this loss of community before, with City of Heroes.  2012 August 31st the shutdown was announced.  2012 November 30th I and many other City fans played like we'd never get another chance to play the game we love again.  Because that's what we thought would happen.

But a miracle happened and now there's a stable community-run City of Heroes.

I do not expect that to happen again.

If these forums were closed but KSP was still available on Steam, maybe something could be done to preserve this community.

I think if we don't have a good backup home for KSP before this one goes away, especially if it's loss is rapid, I don't know what will survive, if anything.

I'm calling on a few KSP players to see what they think.  My apologies for tagging you all, but I think this is a clear and present issue that should have some discussion now.  Hopefully more will join the discussion and something good will come of it.

@HebaruSan, @JAFO, @JoeSchmuckatelli, @K^2, @kurgut, @linuxgurugamer, @Lisias, @ManEatingApe, @mikegarrison, @RayneCloud, @Superfluous J

Honestly, having built forums multiple times over, this is not an easy thing to do. There's so much to talk about like picking the forum software, any sort of hosting or domain names, rules, moderation guidelines, etc. The kind of community we'd want to build making sure it's a safe enough environment for everyone that loves KSP, as well as worrying about any possible legal takedown action from the IP holders whoever they are.

I'd be up for it, and I'd support and offer my hand in building it, but I don't know what sort of hunger there is really for the community. 

Also, as already stated, there's a lot of history here in this place. Including my first posts as Community Manager that I sometimes look back on to remember the good times. All the mod threads, the WIP mod threads, all the vessel sharing, missions, stories, et all. There's just, way to much here and we don't and will never get access to the database to mirror it or save any of it.

As the others have suggested, I think the best course of action is a new dedicated KSP fan ran community discord server. That also, is something I have a great deal of experience in building and running and managing, but it's also a lot of work to really set one up well.

Edited June 4 by RayneCloud

[K^2]

4 hours ago, Jacke said:

I don't think it would have worked as well just as a Discord.

I don't know if Discord is the right space for this sort of a thing either, and for a large community, it's a lot of the same effort running it as a large forum. The only reason I'm suggesting it is that it's relatively easy to set one up as a jumping off point.

[Fizzlebop Smith]

I would contribute to crowd sourced attempts at getting it set up and maintained, though I lack technical skills to assist.

[Jacke]

A big issue here is uncertainty.  We don't know whether or not there's a continuing future for KSP that would extend to see these forums continued.  Because with these forums, a replacement isn't needed.  But if these forums are shut down in short order where we can't react before the end....

I think there's already a security stopgap solution to this problem.

There's already a number of KSP-oriented Discords out there.  Set up by the KSP video makers, streamers, and modders.

I would strongly suggest we all join these KSP-oriented Discords ASAP, as many of them as possible.  I'm already on several of them.

If these forums disappear overnight, there will be discussion of that on those Discords.  And then a community replacement could then take form.

I also strongly suggest if there are vital things on these forums you don't want to lose, you should find a way to save them.

For me, I would worry about connecting with the members here.  The KSP-oriented Discords should solve that issue.

For mods, I have many saved links to these forums.  While those links wouldn't work without these forums, there's the names of the mods in the links' text as well as my arrangement of the links.  That alone I could use to reconnect with needed mods for KSP.

Edited June 5 by Jacke