Mutex Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vexillar Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 @Izny Either you have no clue about the Moderators and the effort they put in for the community, or else you need to know that trolls don't get fed around these parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devblaze Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 (edited) Wish the moderators here would liquid off, seriously. Let us express ourselves in the little time we have left too. Edited June 7 by Devblaze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARL_Mk1 Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 I actually agree up to a certain degree, but not moderating content could have even worse consequences for the forums as a whole. It was Dakota who said forums nor Discord are going anywhere. But he's gone (or about to be) and I'll kindly remind people that we have no idea about the fate of the forums themselves. I for sure know that if we lost the forums I would have a worse time than I had with KSP2's death. I seriously don't understand why aren't there any efforts to back up all of it somewhere, somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gargamel Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 21 minutes ago, Devblaze said: Wish the moderators here would liquid off, seriously. Let us express ourselves in the little time we have left too. Nobody’s stopping you, aside from apparently the auto moderator. We don’t care what you have to say, you’re entitled to your opinion, as long as it’s expressed within the community guidelines to maintain the family friendly environment we’ve tried to maintain for well over a decade now. Trust me, and while I speak for myself, I assume other mods are in the same boat, we’re just as disappointed and unhappy about all of this as you guys are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfluous J Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 2 hours ago, Izny said: Change my mind. Hard pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarecrow71 Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 3 hours ago, Izny said: The forum moderators moderating the KSP2 section should recuse themselves from handling anything until they and the community has gotten the info we all need. Sounds like all you really want is to gripe and moan and insult people without fear of the mods banning you. 3 hours ago, Izny said: Right now, they are enablers. Part of the problem. Participants in something that smells like a rotting fish in a pile of manure. How, exactly, are they enabling anything? They have ZERO to do with the development of the game, they aren't employed by Take Two/Private Division/Intercept Games, and are just as in the dark about what is happening as we are. 3 hours ago, Izny said: They should be ashamed of even volunteering ANY activity regarding KSP2. Why, exactly? Evil-Corp is the one to blame, not the volunteers who are trying to keep this community alive in spite of that. 3 hours ago, Izny said: The only alternative is to remove the whole KSP2 section of the forum until this is resolved. Again, why, exactly? I agree completely that this section of the forums isn't in a good state, and it needs cleaning up. But why advocate for shutting it down when we don't know what is going to happen? 1 hour ago, Devblaze said: Wish the moderators here would liquid off, seriously. Let us express ourselves in the little time we have left too. Much like with Izny above, it just sounds like you want to whine and complain without fear of being warned or banned. 55 minutes ago, MARL_Mk1 said: I seriously don't understand why aren't there any efforts to back up all of it somewhere, somehow. This I can get behind. Someone should be taking the time and effort to back up the forums...but who is going to pay for it? And when should they do it? Like, right now, which would mean multiple back-ups until/unless the forums shut down? Or should they wait until we have a firm answer as to what is going to happen? 47 minutes ago, Gargamel said: Trust me, and while I speak for myself, I assume other mods are in the same boat, we’re just as disappointed and unhappy about all of this as you guys are. Someone's gotta ask, so... ...why aren't you guys more vocal about it? I'm not asking why you aren't out here whining or complaining about it. But I get why some members are angry at the mods when you guys simply haven't been here since the announcement. Vanamonde is here daily, but this is the first time I've seen you on the forums since April. And what happened to Starhawk, and 18Watt, and the rest? Have you just simply moved on? Or do you no longer wish to be involved here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocoscacao Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 28 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said: ...why aren't you guys more vocal about it? I'm not asking why you aren't out here whining or complaining about it. Aside from whining and complaining about it, what's left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisias Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 3 hours ago, Izny said: Change my mind. They do something remotely similar to what you are suggesting, they get their arses sued by damaging the Property (Forum) they were granted permission to care (not to mention a nasty NDA). Being not enough, they are also kicked from the job, leaving the Forum unmoderated - bringing to the owner serious liabilities that will prompt them to turn the whole site read only (at best) or just nuke the whole thing (at worst). If any of this is not enough to change your mind, I'm afraid people that minds the Forum may be tempted to consider you as someone less than supportive for the welfare of this Forum. An uncomfortable position IMHO - as you would be hurting KSP¹ users too. 33 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said: Why, exactly? Evil-Corp is the one to blame, not the volunteers who are trying to keep this community alive in spite of that. Your only mistake, IMHO, is to use the Evil-Corp as a composition as there would be possible to exist a Corp that it's not evil. Every Corporation is evil, and it's the reason they have to pay high salaries and grant a lot of perks to lure someone to lead them - no to mention to merely work for them. Evil-Corp is a pleonasm we should avoid as useless redundancy. 34 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said: ...why aren't you guys more vocal about it? On reddit I talked to someone alleging being a former Moderator from this site. He said to me that they had to sign NDAs. Well, if this is true, you have your answer about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izny Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 1 hour ago, Lisias said: They do something remotely similar to what you are suggesting, they get their arses sued by damaging the Property (Forum) they were granted permission to care (not to mention a nasty NDA). Being not enough, they are also kicked from the job, leaving the Forum unmoderated - bringing to the owner serious liabilities that will prompt them to turn the whole site read only (at best) or just nuke the whole thing (at worst). If any of this is not enough to change your mind, I'm afraid people that minds the Forum may be tempted to consider you as someone less than supportive for the welfare of this Forum. An uncomfortable position IMHO - as you would be hurting KSP¹ users too. Your only mistake, IMHO, is to use the Evil-Corp as a composition as there would be possible to exist a Corp that it's not evil. Every Corporation is evil, and it's the reason they have to pay high salaries and grant a lot of perks to lure someone to lead them - no to mention to merely work for them. Evil-Corp is a pleonasm we should avoid as useless redundancy. On reddit I talked to someone alleging being a former Moderator from this site. He said to me that they had to sign NDAs. Well, if this is true, you have your answer about. This forum's welfare means nothing when everyone left out of anger about current afairs. 2 hours ago, Gargamel said: Trust me, and while I speak for myself, I assume other mods are in the same boat, we’re just as disappointed and unhappy about all of this as you guys are. I appreciate the honesty here. It means a lot to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanamonde Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Quote ...why aren't you guys more vocal about it? There isn't a lot to say, and some of the guys have day jobs and other commitments which affect their ability to participate. Quote He said to me that they had to sign NDAs. Our NDAs prevent us from talking about game news, which is cool because we don't know any anyway, or mis-using forum member information. No one ever told us we couldn't be critical about the game, or the devs, or their businesses, but then again we were chosen to be moderators because we're a pretty even-tempered lot and not given to bad-mouthing people who don't deserve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisias Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 (edited) 4 hours ago, Izny said: This forum's welfare means nothing when everyone left out of anger about current afairs. What's not happening. People are ditching KSP2, not KSP¹. Steam's concurrent players are rising, the online users on this Forum are stable at worst (long time user, we have way less people around in the past and yet we are still here). Whatever is happening (and it's happening), it's affecting only KSP2. Destroying what's still working is not a constructive way to protest about what's not. TL;DR: Scorched Earth tactics negate food and resources for everybody, and not only to the enemy - it's only used on the motherland by an army as a last and desperate measure. We are not fighting an enemy (if we had one, he already fled). We are fighting for survival. Edited June 8 by Lisias TL;DR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzlebop Smith Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 I do not know the technical requirements regarding architecture and legality ... but i am willing to contribute to the effort of backing up the forums. I have asked some members of a discord archival group i hang with "The Eye" but im not sure its really on the level of magnitude for what they mess with. I have not much technical skills.. but would be willing to assist in whatever way i can. I learn pretty quick most days. Would aslo be willing to contribute <500$ USD purchasing hardware or server subscriptions. We should start lobbying PD for permission...While they still may have some say in the matter. Should we start a GOFUNDME or Kickstarter to crowdsource related perpetuities? Who has the related technical skills that would be willing to dedicate the necessary time? Who has the skills and established trust to take the reins of something like that? How would you even begin? @Vanamonde or @Gargamel would you be in a position to know whether or not we would be allowed to back up the servers? If the answer is "No" / "I do not know" would anyone be willing to reach out to whatever contact withing the company still communicates to figure out a more efficient means of RFI outsite customer service email? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanamonde Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 I have no knowledge of the technicalities or legalities of such a thing, @Fizzlebop Smith. You would need to ask @Dakota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izny Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 (edited) 5 hours ago, Lisias said: What's not happening. People are ditching KSP2, not KSP¹. Steam's concurrent players are rising, the online users on this Forum are stable at worst (long time user, we have way less people around in the past and yet we are still here). Whatever is happening (and it's happening), it's affecting only KSP2. hence my plea only relates to the ksp2 section of the forum. i've been quite specific in this besides that... i didn't mention destroy. i said remove. basically: click the publish button on the section until the game is picked up again by... well... by someone... right now it's not even a burning pile of manure... it's just a pile of manure and the pos farmer left the country. To get this rancid taste out of my system, i got myself kithack model club to play around with. All Hail Harvester! Edited June 8 by Izny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisias Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Izny said: hence my plea only relates to the ksp2 section of the forum. i've been quite specific in this Oh, now I see. Unfortunately, both sections are part of the same Forum - they stop moderating the KSP2 subforum, whatever happens will affect the KSP¹ subforum the same. Think on an airplane where by some reason beyound imagination the crew decide to stop serving the the last rows of passengers - the uproar will be felt in the whole airplane, not only on the affected section. We have only one Forum. For the best and for the worst. But... I would like to have the KSP¹ section restored to its former glory. Posts on the KSP2 one will be essentially rants, interrelated by one or two support requests that will not be answered - all the action is happening on KSP¹ nowadays, and I really think this is not going to change soon. 24 minutes ago, Izny said: To get this rancid taste out of my system, i got myself kithack model club to play around with. All Hail Harvester! Wondering if I should go back to mod Orbiter, as I was doing before knowing KSP. Edited June 8 by Lisias Gee!! I'm uanble to do a signle pots wihtout tyops!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izny Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 6 minutes ago, Lisias said: -snip- Oooooh, ima reinstall orbiter too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bej Kerman Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 1 hour ago, Lisias said: all the action is happening on KSP¹ nowadays What action? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdJ Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 3 hours ago, Bej Kerman said: What action? https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/34-ksp1-mod-releases/ The thriving community, building and upgrading mods, the players trying out all different sorts of ways of playing in the game world using various mods, not locked into the vanilla method. Imagination, colony building, having battles and dog fights, brining sci fi fiction to life, Trying out different solar systems and scales, adding ground cover and weather with volumetric clouds, using warp drives, building ships, submarines, aircraft carriers, expanding the KSC, adding continental road systems, stunt courses, using robotics to make complex machines etc. A player and modder on here that I have great respect for, once said (the gist of this): KSP 1 code is not broken, it is just poorly tended. They were in such a rush to bring new things that they didn't bother to go back through the code and correct their mistakes. If a dedicated team went back through and corrected those mistakes then KSP1 has the foundation to build everything else on. Look at all that we have made on a mistake riddled code, imagine if it was fixed and optimised. That is what was meant to happen with KSP2, if you have seen the video by @ShadowZone then you know that that was the original plan before a certain person came in and changed it with grand ideas but no way to achieve them. Giving us the mess we ended up with. There are many players like me who bought straight from Squad rather than going through Steam. So the Steam charts can't give you an accurate idea of how many are playing KSP1. But the constant posts in the mod releases section should give you a good idea that it is still being played by many on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bej Kerman Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 38 minutes ago, ColdJ said: A player and modder on here that I have great respect for, once said (the gist of this): KSP 1 code is not broken, it is just poorly tended. Same difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarecrow71 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 25 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said: Same difference. How so? And no, I don't want you to answer with "If you don't know then you don't know". Provide some context here. Contribute to the conversation. Why do you think they are the same? I'll give an example of how they aren't. You can have great code written, but if you fail to maintain it or take care of it, unintended things can happen. Especially when end users are involved; they tend to do things that you didn't necessarily plan for. That doesn't mean the code is broken. So again, how so? Why do you think they are the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bej Kerman Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 1 hour ago, Scarecrow71 said: 1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said: Same difference. How so? You help me find any meaningful distinction between "broken" and "poorly tended" besides the latter using words that are less scary. "Poorly tended" is just a cause that leads to the effect of "broken" as far as I care. 1 hour ago, Scarecrow71 said: You can have great code written, but if you fail to maintain it or take care of it, unintended things can happen. Especially when end users are involved; they tend to do things that you didn't necessarily plan for. In other words, it's broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdJ Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 17 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said: You help me find any meaningful distinction between "broken" and "poorly tended" besides the latter using words that are less scary In software terms. Broken: There is no point in going through and correcting mistakes as it is so bad you would have to start from scratch. Poorly tended: Because it was rushed there are some silly mistakes that could have been fixed when it was being written. Given access to the source code a decent programer can go through the lines and correct for these mistakes. A small team could get it done and tested in a reasonable time. If TT had stuck to the original plan then they could have had a fully fixed and optimised code base. That they then built on, and been done in 2 years. Most of your posts on every thread I have seen you in seem to be written to say how much you hate KSP, so why keep posting on a forum you hate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bej Kerman Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 3 minutes ago, ColdJ said: In software terms. Broken: There is no point in going through and correcting mistakes as it is so bad you would have to start from scratch. Poorly tended: Because it was rushed there are some silly mistakes that could have been fixed when it was being written. Given access to the source code a decent programer can go through the lines and correct for these mistakes. A small team could get it done and tested in a reasonable time. If TT had stuck to the original plan then they could have had a fully fixed and optimised code base. That they then built on, and been done in 2 years. There's no fixing KSP 1. 3 minutes ago, ColdJ said: Most of your posts on every thread I have seen you in seem to be written to say how much you hate KSP, so why keep posting on a forum you hate? Criticism was allowed last time I checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdJ Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 (edited) 3 hours ago, Bej Kerman said: There's no fixing KSP 1. Are you a programmer that has gone in and tried? [snip] Edited June 8 by Vanamonde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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