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The Elcano Challenge: Ground-Based Circumnavigation (5th)

damerell

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damerell

damerell

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“Two roads diverged in a wood and I, I took the one less traveled by.” – Robert Frost

Juan Sebastián Elcano (1476 – 4 August 1526) was a Spanish explorer of Basque origin who completed the first circumnavigation of the Earth. After Magellan's death in the Philippines, Elcano took command of the nau Victoria from the Moluccas to Sanlúcar de Barrameda in Spain.

This challenge is simple. So simple, it's easy. Well...it sounds easy. Those of us who have completed it would probably disagree.

The challenge to you is to become the next Elcano. To do what no one, or very few, have done. A challenge to circumnavigate an orbital body, be it moon or planet, solely by ground and/or water.

This challenge is a continuation of the original Elcano Challenge, posted by Fengist.  It was subsequently managed by Claw, then rkarmark, then 18Watt.  This is the fifth iteration of the Elcano Challenge.

The rules are simple:

Basically, you are to circumnavigate (drive all the way around) a celestial body, using a vessel on the surface, such as a rover or boat.  Your path should not deviate significantly from the intended direction.

  • Document your start location and journey - flags, Kerbnet markers, screenshots, and mod parts like the ScanSAT Been There Done That all work well - and post images, video, and perhaps written descriptions. If you are posting to this thread, please use a spoiler tag around groups of four or more images. Screenshots of the map view are good to show where you are on the planet, or with mods your ordinary screenshots can show your latitude and longitude.
  • Your start location does not have to be on or near the Equator, and your route does not have to be equatorial or polar. It just has to describe an approximate circle around the body's circumference (for sea circumnavigations of Kerbin or RSS Earth, see below).
  • Drive or sail back to your start location- the long way around...
  • The main mission and all support missions must be launched from the launchpad or runway and delivered to the destination body.  Part of the journey is getting the crew/ship there.  (e.g. no HyperEditing or save file editing the vehicle into position.)  Any combination of launching, refueling, docking, or ISRU is permitted.
  • The vehicle must be Kerballed during the circumnavigation.
    • Doesn't have to be a pod, the lawn-chair seats are fine.
    • The Kerbal only has to be on-board during the circumnavigation.  You don't need to launch the entire mission in one giant ship. If the Kerbal(s) come later or were already waiting for the rover, that's fine.
  • Try to stay on the ground or on/below the surface of any water.  Jumps over dunes and such are permitted. It can be hard to stay on the surface on low-gravity worlds, but if your trip around Gilly is turning into three suborbital trajectories, consider reducing speed or using upwards-firing engines (also a good way to get some traction to let you get moving on low-g worlds without it taking all week to accelerate). On land trips on atmospheric bodies (Kerbin or mods), don't design a glider that speeds off the top of a hill and comes gently to the ground a kilometre further on - if your craft has wings, that's a bad sign. If you have thrust devices (rockets, jets, props, RCS), it's fine to use them off the ground to slow down or avoid a crash (eg into a terrain scatter) but try to avoid prolonged thrust up or forwards. If you're in any doubt, show us your proposed craft.
  • The same vehicle that crosses land must also cross the water.  No ferrying your vehicle on a boat.
    • That also means you can't intentionally remove wheels or pontoons when they are no longer needed.  The vehicle needs to complete the entire circumnavigation as-is.  If parts blow up or get knocked off, well, that's the Kerbal way, and that's ok..
  • You may send replacement vehicles. Game mechanics are not kind to ground vehicles.
    • Your crew must be transferred to any replacement vehicle and it must be very similar to the original.  I understand this is a learning process, and will allow some design changes.
  • You may use aerial and orbital recon vehicles.
  • You may refuel if needed.  Use of ISRU or similar mods is permitted.
  • Saving and reloading (F5/F9) is permitted.  In fact I highly recommend it to guard against KSP bugs. It is permitted to reload after a vehicle crash, although you may prefer to see if you can continue on with a damaged rover.
    • Please note that in the past repeated F5/F9s have adversely affected vessels, particularly if you use F5 while in motion.  Not sure if that is still a problem or not..
  • Circumnavigations of non-stock bodies such as OPM are welcome! Please tell us a bit about the non-stock body when you write your report.
  • The intent is that you control the vehicle during the entire circumnavigation.  Using an autopilot of any kind on land is prohibited. At sea, since KSP's seas are completely flat and featureless, you may use a simple course-following autopilot (eg, instructing MechJeb to point your prow to 275 degrees).
  • Any rule I haven't thought of that breaks the spirit of this challenge.  The point of the challenge is to build a rover/boat, deliver the vehicle, and circumnavigate the body.
  • KSP2 entries are valid, and will be noted as such in the leaderboard.

Categories:  Note that support and delivery vehicles also affect which category your entry falls under.

  • Stock - Stock means stock.  If you use any mods at all, you do not qualify for the stock category.  Breaking Ground and Making History (BG & MH) are stock expansion packs, and do not disqualify you from a Stock entry.
  • Stock Craft - The craft and all support craft are made from all stock parts with their stock configuration. Installed mods may not modify physics or add/modify parts in use by the craft. Mods that add PartModules to stock parts, but do not alter the stock parameters, are also permitted. Examples of permitted mods are information displays (such as KER), transfer window planners(TWP and KAC), and visual enhancements (such as EVE). “Stock Craft” means the .craft or save file can be used on a stock install and it looks/works exactly the same way (your mission would remain effectively unchanged without the mods).
  • Modded - Use of add-ons that change physics or add/modify parts in use by the craft are permitted. An add-on’s technology level must be “near term” or of “next tier” type of capabilities as compared to stock. Mods that allow the user to skip elements of the challenge or violate the spirit of flying to and circumnavigating a body are not permitted. (e.g. slightly better/larger/stronger engines, wheels, fuel tanks are permissible. Hyperdrives, antimatter engines, wormhole generators, hyper dense or exotic fuels, etc. are not allowed.)

There is one exception; if you are circumnavigating a planet from a mod (eg OPM), that mod and absolutely necessary dependencies (eg Kopernicus) don't count; you can do a "stock" or "stock craft" circumnavigation of a mod planet.

This challenge is not for the faint of heart.  It will take persistence and a great deal of patience.  If you're the competitive type and think of this challenge as a race it will get boring really quick.  The leaderboards do not differentiate by speed or times- if you completed a circumnavigation you are on the leaderboard.

Good luck and um... Godspeed....

And before you grumble about how long this will take... think back at how many hours you spent doing other things in KSP that ended up being less rewarding...

If you are considering this challenge, but aren't sure how, I suggest looking at how other members accomplished it.  As this (5th) version of the challenge is still new. take a look at the posts from the first four Elcano challenges, linked near the top of this post.

Circumnavigators

GRAND MASTER NAVIGATORS

Those who have circumnavigated every body in the stock KSP solar system.

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@Claw Stock

@damerell  Modded - Epic mission 

@Jack Joseph Kerman Stock

@mystifeid Stock

@Pouicpouic  Stock - With a single rover

@18Watt Stock

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Master Navigators (aka Planetary Navigator)

Those who have circumnavigated both Kerbin and Eve.

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Master Navigators: (aka Planetary Navigators..)

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Master Mariners

Those who have circumnavigated both Laythe and Kerbin by sea. (See notes in spoiler)

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Master Mariners:  

A description on how to complete a Kerbin circumnavigation by sea in spoiler:

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Note- in order to complete a sea circumnavigation of Kerbin you will actually need to do a short land crossing in one of two possible places, so your boat actually needs to have amphibious capabilities.  Here's a screenshot showing the two possible land crossing locations.  I recommend using the one farther north (RED diamonds).

It's not, of course, possible to have the route be anything like a circle around Kerbin; as long as you pass through every degree of longitude and use one of the marked crossings, your route should be acceptable.

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Kerbin Circumnavigators

See notes in Master Mariner spoiler about Kerbin sea circumnavations.

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Kerbin Circumnavigators:

For information about completing a sea circumnavigation of Kerbin, see notes in Master Mariner spoiler.

 

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Mun Circumnavigators:

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Minmus Circumnavigators:

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Moho Circumnavigators:

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Eve Circumnavigators:

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Gilly Circumnavigators:

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Duna Circumnavigators:

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Ike Circumnavigators:

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Dres Circumnavigators:

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Laythe Circumnavigators:

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Vall Circumnavigators:

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Tylo Circumnavigators:

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Bop Circumnavigators:

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Pol Circumnavigators:

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Eeloo Circumnavigators:

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Extra Planets From Mods Circumnavigators

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Mod Planet Circumnavigators:

RSS Earth (special rule in spoiler)

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RSS Earth does not have water at the location of the Panama and Suez Canals. A sea circumnavigation that crosses both canals' locations by land, and passes through every degree of longitude, is acceptable. You may also use a yacht racing route as defined in Wikipedia, and of course Juan Sebastián Elcano's route is entirely acceptable.

  • @damerell Modded June 2023 - six times the size of Kerbin, this is a long journey even in a fast ship
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damerell

damerell

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I've started the backlog by reviewing @king of nowhere's Tal circumnavigation, which already raises a rules question.

Quote

 

Fortunately, Dancing Porcupine has an ace up his sleeve, in that it has rockets. If I see I am about to fall just over a boulder, a quick push upwards will save the day. You can see I started driving with the rockets pointing downward by default. I am happy the new version of this rover can keep the rockets extended and still protected by the armor; the old model had to keep the engines retracted for them to be protected, and so extending them would cost precious time.

Technically this maneuver would be illegal, as the rules of the Elcano challenge state no propulsion while airborne, but that rule was meant to avoid speedrunning an Elcano on a minor planet by taking suborbital jumps. Occasionally extending a jump to save the rover from certain death is certainly within fair use.

 

I think this would not have been permitted in Elcano 4th, where the no-propulsion rule was very rigid - eg no using RCS for rotation because you might accidentally do some translation. However, I have no problem with it, I think this is perfectly fine within the spirit of the rules as I see them. The rules now read:

"When you are in the air, you may use thrust devices to slow down, avoid a crash, or to apply downforce - but to not speed up or apply lift (beyond a brief application to avoid a crash, eg hitting a collision-enabled terrain scatter)."

Relatedly, the question @Hotel26 brought up in Elcano 4 - is it OK to use chutes to descend a cliff on an atmospheric world - now has the answer "yes, that's perfectly fine".

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king of nowhere

king of nowhere

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, damerell said:

I've started the backlog by reviewing @king of nowhere's Tal circumnavigation, which already raises a rules question.

I think this would not have been permitted in Elcano 4th, where the no-propulsion rule was very rigid - eg no using RCS for rotation because you might accidentally do some translation. However, I have no problem with it, I think this is perfectly fine within the spirit of the rules as I see them. The rules now read:

"When you are in the air, you may use thrust devices to slow down, avoid a crash, or to apply downforce - but to not speed up or apply lift (beyond a brief application to avoid a crash, eg hitting a collision-enabled terrain scatter)."

even in elcano 4th, I got permission for those kind of brief, reasonable uses. at least, I was always very open about them in my reports, and the previous challenge keeper @18Watt never complained. either he never read the actual reports, or he was also willing to apply some leeway.

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damerell

damerell

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Posted (edited)

Couldn't sleep, so I added king of nowhere's 2-Wolda, and I've tried to write a minimal summary of each modded world - the approximate size, if nothing else.

ETA: and Jifgif, which I think is pronounced GIF as the creator of GIFs would like you to pronounce it, and then GIF as in everyone actually pronounces it.

Edited by damerell
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RoninFrog

RoninFrog

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, damerell said:

@RoninFrog you're next in the backlog - please, are your circumnavigations entirely stock? I don't see anything that looks modded, but I only have the vaguest sense of what's in the DLC.

Yes.  The first Mun circumnavigation had some visual mods, but the others were on a raw stock install.

Edit: I think my Mun circumnavigation should be Stock Craft instead of Modded, might as well fix that while you're at it.

Edited by RoninFrog
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Nazalassa

Nazalassa

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Posted

Something I just discovered, that may be useful for lengthy circumnavigations:

The SAS is actually useful, but the default key bindings make it pretty useless: it resets the direction it wants to point towards when you press any rotation key, and rover movement is bound to such keys, so if you constantly press 'w' the SAS will keep resetting itself. I remapped 'w' to 't' for rover movement (added 't' as secondary key), and now the SAS follows a steady 159° instead of drifting every now and then.

Acrually, it kept following 159° for 2 hours! Except for when I ran out of EC.

Also, if you're laying waypoints, you can change the frequency at which Kerbnet updates: set KERBNET_REFRESH_SLOW_INTERVAL and KERBNET_REFRESH_FAST_INTERVAL in settings.cfg. Not that refreshing more than every 3.5 seconds would be that useful, but still.

On 10/29/2023 at 9:11 PM, damerell said:

At sea, since KSP's seas are completely flat and featureless, you may use a simple course-following autopilot (eg, instructing MechJeb to point your prow to 275 degrees).

The SAS "trick" may work as a stock "autopilot" in that case, no?

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RoninFrog

RoninFrog

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Nazalassa said:

The SAS "trick" may work as a stock "autopilot" in that case, no?

That's how I personally get across oceans.  The one difference would be roll-locking, as SAS can't snap back to a roll configuration.  Also, SAS struggles to make full use of reaction wheels, as it seems to calculate the force needed by how far the control point has drifted, rather than how much force it actually needs to balance.  I think these limitations are beneficial to both the rover design and operation, as you can't slap a giant propellor to a pontoon and let MechJeb manhandle it across the ocean at 300+ m/s.

Just don't forget to come back to your game before the rover reaches land at 70 m/s lol

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RoninFrog

RoninFrog

Posted
Posted

I'll start it off by logging some of my progress around Moho:

Spoiler

Eve transfer:

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Descent:

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Start:

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So far, so good:

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How to Properly do an Elcano.  Discovered I could split-screen my monitor, and watch a movie on one side while I steer the rover on the other.

I can't remember what movie that is.

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Going face-first into a wall at 40 m/s (survived):

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So far it has definitely been the most challenging elcano, but I see no reason why this rover won't be able to make it the full way around.

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damerell

damerell

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I've cleared more of the backlog, crediting RoninFrog for Kerbin, Minmus, and Gilly, and reflecting that their earlier Mun was "Stock Craft".

13 hours ago, Nazalassa said:

The SAS "trick" may work as a stock "autopilot" in that case, no?

That I think was always permitted (or to use MechJeb KILL ROT or HVEL+ modes). The thing I'm allowing that 18Watt didn't is to have something that knows the way you _want_ to go, rather than these sorts of options which just try to keep going the way they're already going.

13 hours ago, Nazalassa said:

I remapped 'w' to 't' for rover movement (added 't' as secondary key), and now the SAS follows a steady 159° instead of drifting every now and then.

I think almost all of us do this kind of remapping anyway so that whenever you go forwards your reaction wheels aren't trying to push your nose into the ground, but yeah.

38 minutes ago, RoninFrog said:

So far it has definitely been the most challenging elcano

Moho had some of the most challenging terrain I saw outside of Eve's polar regions. At least with no life support issues, you won't have to do half of it in the dark.

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RoninFrog

RoninFrog

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, damerell said:

That I think was always permitted (or to use MechJeb KILL ROT or HVEL+ modes). The thing I'm allowing that 18Watt didn't is to have something that knows the way you _want_ to go, rather than these sorts of options which just try to keep going the way they're already going.

The main reason I don't want to add it is it would likely invalidate all of the Kerbin speedrun attempts.  I don't know exactly how MechJeb works, but if it has full reaction wheel control I'm 90% sure I could make a rover that can go supersonic on water.

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damerell

damerell

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Posted
12 hours ago, RoninFrog said:

The main reason I don't want to add it is it would likely invalidate all of the Kerbin speedrun attempts.  I don't know exactly how MechJeb works, but if it has full reaction wheel control I'm 90% sure I could make a rover that can go supersonic on water.

I fear we are talking at cross purposes somehow, because I don't know what to say other than to reiterate that I think that was always permitted.

As 18Watt would say, it's not a speedrun - while the runs where people tried to build the fastest possible boats were entertaining, and they're valid, they're no more valid than chugging around at a modest speed.

From my point of view, the new permission means there's _less_ incentive to build an absurdly fast boat. I would not have built the FARboat if I didn't have to sail across the Pacific steering by hand.

Anyway, I've reviewed @Alex Verb's pleasing video and put him in the ranks of the sea circumnavigators.

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RoninFrog

RoninFrog

Posted
Posted

Moho down.

Spoiler

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Yeehaw.

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And on to Duna.  Duna is such a cakewalk compared to Moho.

Spoiler

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Accidentally fat-fingered z when I was about to touchdown, and I was landing with mammoths.  Then, in my panic, I fat-fingered c which put me inside the command pod in my storage bay with no HUD do see what was going on.  It was a traumatizing experience.

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19 m/s left after transfer from Moho ez dub

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And here is the progress so far.  It's so infinitely easier with the smoother terrain and propellor power.  I'll never do another Moho elcano again.

Spoiler

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damerell

damerell

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Posted

Given @RoninFrog Moho, Duna. I think they may be the next Grand Master, which means when the curse of the Elcano Challenge claims me, they get to run Elcano 6. :-)

I'm holding off on @Ianwubby's underwater circumnavigation in the hope of seeing the timelapse account of it, and to put off the question of how to score it. 18Watt said an underwater circumnavigation counts as sea (which I agree with); but does an underwater circumnavigation on the bottom count as land as well (because you were after all fighting the terrain), or not because you shouldn't be able to get two badges on one mission (not a fan of this argument myself, especially since AFAIK a seabottom journey will take all week), or pick land or sea but not both? I'm open to suggestions.

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RoninFrog

RoninFrog

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Posted (edited)

Ike.  The low rotational speed allowed me to hold orbital radial out instead of surface radial out, eliminating the downhill "hopping" glitch and vastly increasing both the rover's speed and reliability.  I only needed to load a save once, when I ran into a BG surface science rock.  Hate those.

I think if I had held orbital radial out on Moho it would have been so much easier.

Spoiler

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Overshot the mothership by a couple dozen km.  Oopsie.

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Edited by RoninFrog
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  • 4 weeks later...
Kimera Industries

Kimera Industries

Posted
Posted

So, technically, I have everything ready to go for a Minmus Elcano, but I haven't touched those vehicles in months, I think. The rover is delivered to Minmus along with the crew, and that's pretty much all the setup it needs. However, right now it's parked outside an unrelated base that I launched previously, would you want me to document that base as well? Because by sheer luck, I have the screenshots to do so.

Regardless, I hope I'll enjoy re-learning how to drive a rover that is technically untested!

Spoiler

In order to mark the path of the drive route, I picked out likely-looking locations from the map view and used Alt-f12 to place a vessel with a ton of decouplers at each location, depositing one at each place. Is this alright? The debris has no effect on the rover other than telling me which direction to go, and I don't have any autopilot or navigation mods installed. If it's not, I'll just terminate it all from the tracking station.

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damerell

damerell

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I don't need you to document the base, but I'm certainly not going to stop you - the reward for the organiser is reading about your adventures, so I'd encourage it.

Quote

In order to mark the path of the drive route, I picked out likely-looking locations from the map view and used Alt-f12 to place a vessel with a ton of decouplers at each location, depositing one at each place. Is this alright?

I'm in two minds about this - there's an argument you could just place KerbNet waypoints, so you're not getting any real advantage by using Alt-F12, but also there's an argument not to have Alt-F12 anywhere near the Elcano. I regret to say I'd be happier if you deleted them.

 

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Kimera Industries

Kimera Industries

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, damerell said:

I'm in two minds about this - there's an argument you could just place KerbNet waypoints, so you're not getting any real advantage by using Alt-F12, but also there's an argument not to have Alt-F12 anywhere near the Elcano. I regret to say I'd be happier if you deleted them.

Understandable. I didn't use waypoints because I don't have an orbital surveyor around Minmus in that save and it's really hard to tell elevation from the KerbNet, making finding an optimal route pretty hard. But, I can just use the map view from the rover. I'll be fine. :D 

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Icky

Icky

Posted
Posted

 

  • On atmospheric worlds your vehicle design must not provide significant aerodynamic lift.

how much lift is too much? im looking at the rules discussions over the last few months since i looked here last and im thinking my kerbin run wouldnt fly (heh) anymore. my rover was prop powered and would sort of glide. just enough to keep the descent from destroying the rover on landing, it was incapable of flying level even if you wanted to. im just curious what direction i should take my build when we inevitably start doing these in ksp2.

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RoninFrog

RoninFrog

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, Icky said:

 

  • On atmospheric worlds your vehicle design must not provide significant aerodynamic lift.

how much lift is too much? im looking at the rules discussions over the last few months since i looked here last and im thinking my kerbin run wouldnt fly (heh) anymore. my rover was prop powered and would sort of glide. just enough to keep the descent from destroying the rover on landing, it was incapable of flying level even if you wanted to. im just curious what direction i should take my build when we inevitably start doing these in ksp2.

By my interpretation of the rules, gliders are not allowed.

Options that would be allowed would be:

  1. You can use parachutes to slow the descent mid-jump, which is the closest to the situation you are describing.
  2. You can change the angle of attack of the propellors before and and during the jump to really kill the speed of your rover quickly.  This is the solution I personally use on my prop-powered rovers.
  3. You can use downward-angled fins to limit the height of the jump.  Downforce on the way up is allowed, but upforce on the way down is not.

I believe "significant aerodynamic lift" would be any intentionally placed or positioned lifting surfaces other than the natural aerodynamic parameters of the rover.

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